On 10/16/2015 01:30 PM, Andrew Pullins wrote:
    ...Wouldn't most users end at first create various toolbox because
    they think it's a cool idea at first then end up always using the
    same (the one with all the tools) because they get used to it the
    most? ...

What?  Are you saying that most users would just end up adding all the
tools into one group?  This would not make any since.

    I thought about the exact same examples, and then I realize that
    sometimes photographers would use the paint tools too (to make small
    fixes here and there, to change selections in quick mask mode, etc.)
    and that many painters would still use other tools (selections,
    warp, transformations, etc.).
    So would you really want to hide them (hence make it more difficult
    to get to them) even if to use it once every hour? At first this
    could look like a good idea but I really wonder if it will hold with
    the time.

You don't need to see all the tools at the same time. for example the
selection tools.  If you think about them in a general since then there
are three groups of selection tools.  perfect select(rectangle/ellipse),
Free hand, and computer select (letting GIMP decide what to select).  I
don't really want to see seven tools when I could only have three
groups.  If you are looking for the rectangle select and you see the
ellipse tool you know that you need to go into the group to select the
rectangle select.  I rarely use select by color or foreground select(I
don't even know what foreground select does) If I want to roughly select
an area I always go to the fuzzy select tool.  So I always just hide
them anyway.  But there always comes that time when fuzzy selecting all
the red in an image is ridiculous and I need the select by color tool.
So I have to go back to the toolbox menu and pull it out (I know about
the tool menu but I don't ever think about looking in there).  It would
be more beneficial for someone like me to just have these tools
selected. and If you or the photographer does not like this then you
don't have to group them.

    You can already organize where things are by ordering tools in
    preferences > toolbox. Though clearly this is a good example of not
    very good UI. Basically many of the things we have which requires to
    go to the preferences are not very good in my opinion because I end
    up nearly never go there to customize (or forgetting you even could).

Maybe you should be able to right click the toolbox and it would bring
up a context menu with edit that would bring you straight to the edit
toolbox menu like LibreOffice does.  This would also be nice to put in
the tool menu.  You could even make it its make this its own window like
the shortcut window.  But I would rather it still be available in

Hmm, see, none of us is "most users".

On the one hand, I can see how Andrew's suggestions make sense for some people and some workflows.

On the other hand, personally I would be horrified if I had to use a Toolbox that works the way Andrew is suggesting. I have all seven selection tools lined up, ready for use, along with almost all of the other tools that can be put in the toolbox, and that works really well. And I find the LibreOffice UI to be one of the worst UIs I've ever had to deal with.

People who like things the way they are usually don't feel motivated to speak up and say so.

I like the GIMP Toolbox just the way it is.
I like being able to move the Toolbox around and resize it at will.
I like having all the tools and my preferred dialogs in the Toolbox, and I like being able to pull a dialog out to stand on its own when I want to. I like working in Full Screen mode, with the ability to pull the Toolbox up only when needed, otherwise having it hidden behind the image. In my opinion, the people who put together the current GIMP UI did a totally outstanding job.

No matter how much I like the current UI, and no matter how much Andrew doesn't like it, neither of us can speak for "most users". That would require a very carefully done survey, which likely would reveal that there's no such thing as "most GIMP users". But perhaps there are "exemplar" types of users and workflows, with different UI preferences.


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