----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----
Gentlemen:: As most of you know I seldom comment on postings on these nets as I do not consider myself qualified to comment on most issues, however, every once in a while an issue raises its ugly head with which I do have considerable experience. The crash in Southern California bears a close resemblance to a situation I found myself in eleven years ago. I was under a Model 415 -D, 2 inches shorter, totally confused, upside down in a dark cockpit, hurt, smelling gas fumes, and trying to dig my way out! After being stitched up and pointed in the right direction, I attempted to learn from the situation that screwed me up. I found the errors in my way, and one by one came to an understanding which I will iterate as follows. LISTEN to what Ed Burkhead is trying to tell you about determining the best glide speeds for your aircraft PRIOR to its necessity, get in your airplane and spend some time practicing engine out procedures. The Ercoupe was never graphically analyzed, although it was subjected to an extensive test procedure, the manufacture and licensing section of the Federal Rules and Regulations did not require an owners handbook with performance information at the time of the Ercoupes birth. The D model, with its 9 degrees of up elevator performance limitation, is the most difficult aircraft I know of to get into a proper power off glide! You MUST push the nose over to get the airspeed above 70 MPH to reduce the high sink rate and establish a glide, especially with the engine stopped, and not windmilling, secondly FLY THE AIRPLANE. Before communication or Navigation. Establish the glide, orient yourself, pick a landing site, NEVER change your mind, and fly to the site. By pulling back on the yoke a glide speed of 62 to 65 will be indicated, this is a phony indication caused by the high angle of attack of the wing as the sink rate increases to 700 to 800 feet per minute downward at an angle in excess of the forward motion. Listen to Ed, he damned sure knows what he is talking about. Before I go I must say this:: The Captain is alive because he did not have a shoulder harness!! He may have difficulty shaving for the rest of his life, but at least the hair will continue to grow! I am adamant in my belief that shoulder harnesses in an aircraft with no superstructure or roll cage over the pilots head are more dangerous than the lack thereof. Find a drawing of an Ercoupe and draw a straight line between the top of the cowl, and the tops of the rudders, Notice the configuration of the bubble cockpit! This is a crush zone that will not support the dry weight of the Ercoupe, much less the slam over, violent behavior exhibited by an Ercoupe with its feet tangled up. Last year after flying Ercoupes for 13 years, I too experienced the fuel starvation problem at high angle of attack. I spent a month with a mechanic in an attempt to duplicate the problem at will in order to know exactly how to rectify the problem. If there is any interest in this anomaly, I will be more than happy to discuss it. Just let me know. It is rather long also. Sorry to be so long winded. Wayne Woollard Ed Burkhead wrote: > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]---- > > Twenty something years ago, I did careful glide testing on my Coupe. > > I was surprised that the best glide ratio came out to be about 80-85 mph > (true) - maybe a bit less. (The numbers I recorded and calculated were > skewed by the airspeed indicator I had at the time that gave high readings > so I can't cite you the exact numbers and I lost the calculation papers over > the years, darn it.) > > If you were to do glide testing at each 5 mph speed from minimum up to 90, > you'll find the best glide ratio. (forward-mph * 88 / 60 = > forward-feet/second) Vertical speed measured with a stop-watch gives > feet/second vertically. (Slowly cool the engine after the climb to 5,000', > take a thousand feet to stabilize the glide before starting the stopwatch > when passing 4,000'. Stop the stopwatch when you hit 2,000'.) > > Glide ratio = ( forward-mph * 88 / 60 ) / ( 2,000 / > seconds-from-4000'-to-2000' ) > > Example of the calculation with made up data: > > Glide ratio = ( 80mph * 88 / 60 ) / ( 2000 / 136-seconds ) > > Glide ratio = 117.3 / 14.7 > > Glide ratio = 7.9:1 > > For real numbers, you have to go do the test at all the speeds and do > careful record keeping. I'd like to collect the info from several planes in > each of the models to be analyzed and posted on the web site. > > At the correct speed, the Coupe's glide is NOT pitiful, nor is it great. > But you can make decent distance. You'll be pleasantly surprised. > > At any speed slower, the glide ratio gets worse. Near minimum flying speed, > the glide ratio "has about the same glide slope as a 1400 lb. cook stove" > with two quite short wings attached. > > Ed Burkhead > http://www.ercoupe.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Wilkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 10:13 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Ercoupe crash info...long > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any > advice in this forum.]---- > > When I was learning to fly, in a Piper Colt, I had the occasion to ask my > instructor about the glide slope characteristics of the plane. His > response, and it applies directly to the Coupe, was, " It has about the same > glide slope as a 1200 lb. cook stove". > > Larry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ken Doyle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 5:52 AM > Subject: RE: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Ercoupe crash info...long > > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any > advice in this forum.]---- > > > > > > John, > > > > Thanks for forwarding Charlie's note about Fred and his coupe crash. We > all > > wish Fred the best. Based on Fred's coming up short, and my own practice > > with dead stick landings, I am reminded how quick the coupe will come down > > and how little it will glide. If you haven't done any dead stick landings > > lately a little practice would be in order. > > > > Charlie brings up an interesting solution to the "vapor lock" discussion. > I > > don't know that his analysis would apply to the Alon, but it might. His > > solution to the problem, lowering the nose, describes my recent experience > > too. Does anyone have sleeves on their fuel lines? It would be worth > > checking. > > > > Hope to see you all in Mason, Michigan for the Nationals. > > > > Ken Doyle > > Springfield, Mo > > Alon N5477E > > > > > > ______________ > > I picked this up from the gyrocraft board to which I subscribe. > > > > Regards, > > John > > > > > > We've lost two pilots to fatal crashes from my hangar row over the last > > couple years and almost had a 3rd one Saturday. Guy and his wife fly an > > Ercoupe hangared across > > the row from me and 2 over. He's known as "Capt. Fred" and does a public > > access airplane show on Sunday evenings. We've been neighbors for at > > least 15 years. He's > > kind of an over-weight cornball who wears a leather jacket and a long > > silk scarf while he's narrating and interviewing and even a leather > > helmet and goggles in the shows > > intro and closing. He's like an affable nerd and his wife is constantly > > getting awards for working with Girl Scout groups, etc. and getting them > > interested in aviation. > > > > I get cornered once in awhile on Saturday mornings when she has a group > > in her hangar and they want to look at different aircraft. They all want > > a photo of themselves > > sitting in the gyro, so I have to make sure they all get in and out > > safely without breaking any wires or scratching anything. We're talking > > groups of 50 or more. I gripe > > about it, but I love it. > > > > Fred did a show on me a few years ago and I got slightly P.O.ed. We did > > about 3 hours of air-to-air shots and Fred used about 3 minutes of them, > > if that. He's a big ham > > and likes talking and yakking about all his trivia knowledge instead of > > showing the planes in action. > > > > Anyway, my hangar partner Bill is a retired Southwest Airlines jet > > mechanic, and now that he's retired, he does annuals, repairs, etc. on > > the field and for a large flight > > school. He's an A&P and A.I. (or I.A. I can never get it straight). Fred > > and Anna's Ercoupe needed an engine rebuild, so Bill sent it a little > > north to a guy that has a good > > reputation for rebuilding aircraft engines. Bill got the engine back > > after about 5 months (!) and $8,000 worth of work and parts. He had > > everything rebuilt, like the mags, > > starter, charging system and had a new fuel pump put on. Bill then redid > > all the 50+ year old baffling with new, both the rubber and aluminum > > sheet portions. > > > > I took a "Wannabee" for a ride Saturday a.m. and noticed that Bill and > > Fred were there and running up the engine. We went for about an hour > > ride and when we came > > back, they were still running up the engine. My passenger offered to buy > > breakfast, so we left the field and went to IHOP for some food. We shot > > the baloney awhile and I > > drove him back to the airport to get his car. I then went to buy a small > > light for my gyro, and when I pulled in at the airport, I noticed the > > usual contingent of about 8 to 10 > > airport rats standing around as when someone is doing a first flight or > > something. I parked and walked up to the group and asked what everyone > > was watching. > > > > I was then pointed to look at the east end of the runway to see Capt. > > Fred's Ercoupe laying on the adjacent freeway just past the thresh-hold, > > upside down. I then noticed > > all the flashing lights and that the Mercy-Air heli was parked there on > > the freeway. Just then, Bill drove in. He was at the scene and said Fred > > was pretty banged up, but > > managed to crawl out by himself. They life-flighted him to Sharp > > hospital, where later we found out he had damage to his spleen and some > > other possible internal injuries. > > Bill said his face was like a piece of raw meat as was one of his arms. > > Fred never did install shoulder harnesses in his plane, so that lap belt > > was just a pivot point to slam his > > face against the panel. > > > > No word so far on the cause. Fred was up about an hour and a half, > > supposedly running the engine at full power and circling overhead. The > > story gets a little muddled here. > > Some say that Fred did stay over the field and just misjudged when the > > engine quit and overestimated his glide range. Some others said that he > > wandered away from the > > field, as much as several miles, against Bill's advice. > > > > I could see that Bill was upset, but then he started shaking > > uncontrollably and started having crying jags. It was sad all around. > > Fred's wife, Anna, was watching him come > > in through binoculars and saw him crash. There's an evergreen nursery on > > the east side of the freeway, and Fred's wheels caught the chain-link > > fence and it pretty much > > stopped him, but flipped him upside down onto the freeway. Luckily, > > there was a break in traffic. > > > > Hopefully he'll pull through O.K. Bill said that when he crawled out, he > > asked for Bill, and when Bill showed up in a minute, Fred said: "The > > engine stopped! It just > > stopped!" The weather wasn't conducive to carb-icing, in fact it is > > extremely rare in this area, due to the desert-like conditions. If the > > fuel pump was not working, the 6 > > gallons in the header should not have been enough for him to stay up > > that long, especially at full power. There is also a bobber gauge right > > in front of the pilot's nose. If that > > thing goes down a 1/2 inch, any Ercoupe pilot would notice it > > immediately. The 2 wing tanks are joined and the fuel pump merely pumps > > fuel up to the header tank, where > > it garvity-feeds to the carb and the excess flows back to the wing > > tanks. > > > > I have one idea, but don't know if it's valid. When I bought one of my > > Coupes, the engine had just been rebuilt and they forgot to put the > > fire-sleeve back on the short hose > > that feeds the fuel from the header to the carb. It passes right next to > > some exhaust components. On hot days, I started having my engine > > sputter, especially on climbout. > > Putting the nose down would usually clear it. Winds up it was > > vapor-lock, and it cleared with the nose down, as there was enough > > pressure to overcome it. In a climb, that > > fuel line was almost horizontal. After installing a short piece of > > fire-sleeve, the problem never appeared again. > > > > I asked Bill if there was a fire-sleeve on that hose, and he said there > > wasn't one. I'm guessing that previously, with the baffling all broken > > and ratty, there might have been > > enough air to keep it cool. After Bill redid all the baffling, maybe > > there wasn't enough airflow around that hose and vapor-lock took over. > > Apparently it didn't clear when > > he was nose down like mine would, but with new, efficient baffling, > > maybe it kept enough heat in where that wouldn't overcome it. > > > > No one knows for sure where the engine exactly quit. I talked with the > > Mercy-Air pilot, and he said that Fred got a "Mayday" out a little > > before he crashed. He was on his > > way in when the tower asked him to loiter awhile, as they had a plane in > > distress. The pilot said in a few moments he asked where the plane now > > was and was told it > > crashed onto the freeway. They got there and landed within a minute, as > > they were hovering or circling on the other end of the field. Pilot said > > that was the very first time > > that he was ever the first one on a scene. Fred's plane had all 3 lanes > > blocked, so he was able to land right next it. > > > > Anyway, that's the latest from "Charlie" row at Gillespie Field, CA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > MACINTOSH(r)...because everything else is just a peecee. > > WINTEL...the cubic zirconium of computers.(c) > > "What a man has honestly acquired is absolutely his own, which he may > > freely give, but cannot be taken from him without his consent." > > - Samuel Adams (1768) > > "A true man, like a true horse, runs with his own breed." > > -From KIM by Rudyard Kipling > > > > > > ================================================================== > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > > > > > > > > ================================================================== > > TO UNSUBSCRIBE go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > > > > > > > > ================================================================== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm > > ================================================================== > TO UNSUBSCRIBE go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm -- Mr. D. Wayne Woollard, CPBE AIM: DWWoollard ICQ: 124132836 "Why fly a Spam can when you can have fun and fly an Ercoupe?" ================================================================== TO UNSUBSCRIBE go to: http://ercoupers.com/lists.htm
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