----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following any advice in this forum.]----
Thanks Wayne,
This is sort of my feelings too but I didn't want to get in the middle
of something that I have had no
experience with.
I don't have shoulder harnesses in my 415C and this is the very reason
that I haven't considered
installing them.
Bob Saville
Wayne Woollard wrote:
> ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following
any advice in this forum.]----
>
> Gentlemen::
>
> As most of you know I seldom comment on postings on these nets as I do
not consider myself qualified to
> comment on most issues, however, every once in a while an issue raises
its ugly head with which I do
> have considerable experience. The crash in Southern California bears a
close resemblance to a situation
> I found myself in eleven years ago. I was under a Model 415 -D, 2
inches shorter, totally confused,
> upside down in a dark cockpit, hurt, smelling gas fumes, and trying to
dig my way out!
>
> After being stitched up and pointed in the right direction, I attempted
to learn from the situation that
> screwed me up. I found the errors in my way, and one by one came to an
understanding which I will
> iterate as follows.
>
> LISTEN to what Ed Burkhead is trying to tell you about determining the
best glide speeds for your
> aircraft PRIOR to its necessity, get in your airplane and spend some
time practicing engine out
> procedures. The Ercoupe was never graphically analyzed, although it was
subjected to an extensive test
> procedure, the manufacture and licensing section of the Federal Rules
and Regulations did not require an
> owners handbook with performance information at the time of the Ercoupes
birth.
>
> The D model, with its 9 degrees of up elevator performance limitation,
is the most difficult aircraft I
> know of to get into a proper power off glide! You MUST push the nose
over to get the airspeed above 70
> MPH to reduce the high sink rate and establish a glide, especially with
the engine stopped, and not
> windmilling, secondly FLY THE AIRPLANE. Before communication or
Navigation. Establish the glide,
> orient yourself, pick a landing site, NEVER change your mind, and fly to
the site. By pulling back on
> the yoke a glide speed of 62 to 65 will be indicated, this is a phony
indication caused by the high
> angle of attack of the wing as the sink rate increases to 700 to 800
feet per minute downward at an
> angle in excess of the forward motion. Listen to Ed, he damned sure
knows what he is talking about.
>
> Before I go I must say this:: The Captain is alive because he did not
have a shoulder harness!! He may
> have difficulty shaving for the rest of his life, but at least the hair
will continue to grow!
> I am adamant in my belief that shoulder harnesses in an aircraft with no
superstructure or roll cage
> over the pilots head are more dangerous than the lack thereof. Find a
drawing of an Ercoupe and draw a
> straight line between the top of the cowl, and the tops of the rudders,
Notice the configuration of the
> bubble cockpit! This is a crush zone that will not support the dry
weight of the Ercoupe, much less
> the slam over, violent behavior exhibited by an Ercoupe with its feet
tangled up.
>
> Last year after flying Ercoupes for 13 years, I too experienced the fuel
starvation problem at high
> angle of attack. I spent a month with a mechanic in an attempt to
duplicate the problem at will in
> order to know exactly how to rectify the problem. If there is any
interest in this anomaly, I will be
> more than happy to discuss it. Just let me know. It is rather long
also.
>
> Sorry to be so long winded.
>
> Wayne Woollard
>
> Ed Burkhead wrote:
>
> > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following
any advice in this forum.]----
> >
> > Twenty something years ago, I did careful glide testing on my Coupe.
> >
> > I was surprised that the best glide ratio came out to be about 80-85
mph
> > (true) - maybe a bit less. (The numbers I recorded and calculated were
> > skewed by the airspeed indicator I had at the time that gave high
readings
> > so I can't cite you the exact numbers and I lost the calculation
papers over
> > the years, darn it.)
> >
> > If you were to do glide testing at each 5 mph speed from minimum up to
90,
> > you'll find the best glide ratio. (forward-mph * 88 / 60 =
> > forward-feet/second) Vertical speed measured with a stop-watch gives
> > feet/second vertically. (Slowly cool the engine after the climb to
5,000',
> > take a thousand feet to stabilize the glide before starting the
stopwatch
> > when passing 4,000'. Stop the stopwatch when you hit 2,000'.)
> >
> > Glide ratio = ( forward-mph * 88 / 60 ) / ( 2,000 /
> > seconds-from-4000'-to-2000' )
> >
> > Example of the calculation with made up data:
> >
> > Glide ratio = ( 80mph * 88 / 60 ) / ( 2000 / 136-seconds )
> >
> > Glide ratio = 117.3 / 14.7
> >
> > Glide ratio = 7.9:1
> >
> > For real numbers, you have to go do the test at all the speeds and do
> > careful record keeping. I'd like to collect the info from several
planes in
> > each of the models to be analyzed and posted on the web site.
> >
> > At the correct speed, the Coupe's glide is NOT pitiful, nor is it
great.
> > But you can make decent distance. You'll be pleasantly surprised.
> >
> > At any speed slower, the glide ratio gets worse. Near minimum flying
speed,
> > the glide ratio "has about the same glide slope as a 1400 lb. cook
stove"
> > with two quite short wings attached.
> >
> > Ed Burkhead
> > http://www.ercoupe.org
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Larry Wilkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 10:13 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Ercoupe crash info...long
> >
> > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before following
any
> > advice in this forum.]----
> >
> > When I was learning to fly, in a Piper Colt, I had the occasion to ask
my
> > instructor about the glide slope characteristics of the plane. His
> > response, and it applies directly to the Coupe, was, " It has about
the same
> > glide slope as a 1200 lb. cook stove".
> >
> > Larry
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ken Doyle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 5:52 AM
> > Subject: RE: [COUPERS-FLYIN] Ercoupe crash info...long
> >
> > > ----[Please read http://ercoupers.com/disclaimer.htm before
following any
> > advice in this forum.]----
> > >
> > >
> > > John,
> > >
> > > Thanks for forwarding Charlie's note about Fred and his coupe crash.
We
> > all
> > > wish Fred the best. Based on Fred's coming up short, and my own
practice
> > > with dead stick landings, I am reminded how quick the coupe will
come down
> > > and how little it will glide. If you haven't done any dead stick
landings
> > > lately a little practice would be in order.
> > >
> > > Charlie brings up an interesting solution to the "vapor lock"
discussion.
> > I
> > > don't know that his analysis would apply to the Alon, but it might.
His
> > > solution to the problem, lowering the nose, describes my recent
experience
> > > too. Does anyone have sleeves on their fuel lines? It would be
worth
> > > checking.
> > >
> > > Hope to see you all in Mason, Michigan for the Nationals.
> > >
> > > Ken Doyle
> > > Springfield, Mo
> > > Alon N5477E
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________
> > > I picked this up from the gyrocraft board to which I subscribe.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > > We've lost two pilots to fatal crashes from my hangar row over the
last
> > > couple years and almost had a 3rd one Saturday. Guy and his wife fly
an
> > > Ercoupe hangared across
> > > the row from me and 2 over. He's known as "Capt. Fred" and does a
public
> > > access airplane show on Sunday evenings. We've been neighbors for at
> > > least 15 years. He's
> > > kind of an over-weight cornball who wears a leather jacket and a
long
> > > silk scarf while he's narrating and interviewing and even a leather
> > > helmet and goggles in the shows
> > > intro and closing. He's like an affable nerd and his wife is
constantly
> > > getting awards for working with Girl Scout groups, etc. and getting
them
> > > interested in aviation.
> > >
> > > I get cornered once in awhile on Saturday mornings when she has a
group
> > > in her hangar and they want to look at different aircraft. They all
want
> > > a photo of themselves
> > > sitting in the gyro, so I have to make sure they all get in and out
> > > safely without breaking any wires or scratching anything. We're
talking
> > > groups of 50 or more. I gripe
> > > about it, but I love it.
> > >
> > > Fred did a show on me a few years ago and I got slightly P.O.ed. We
did
> > > about 3 hours of air-to-air shots and Fred used about 3 minutes of
them,
> > > if that. He's a big ham
> > > and likes talking and yakking about all his trivia knowledge instead
of
> > > showing the planes in action.
> > >
> > > Anyway, my hangar partner Bill is a retired Southwest Airlines jet
> > > mechanic, and now that he's retired, he does annuals, repairs, etc.
on
> > > the field and for a large flight
> > > school. He's an A&P and A.I. (or I.A. I can never get it straight).
Fred
> > > and Anna's Ercoupe needed an engine rebuild, so Bill sent it a
little
> > > north to a guy that has a good
> > > reputation for rebuilding aircraft engines. Bill got the engine back
> > > after about 5 months (!) and $8,000 worth of work and parts. He had
> > > everything rebuilt, like the mags,
> > > starter, charging system and had a new fuel pump put on. Bill then
redid
> > > all the 50+ year old baffling with new, both the rubber and aluminum
> > > sheet portions.
> > >
> > > I took a "Wannabee" for a ride Saturday a.m. and noticed that Bill
and
> > > Fred were there and running up the engine. We went for about an hour
> > > ride and when we came
> > > back, they were still running up the engine. My passenger offered to
buy
> > > breakfast, so we left the field and went to IHOP for some food. We
shot
> > > the baloney awhile and I
> > > drove him back to the airport to get his car. I then went to buy a
small
> > > light for my gyro, and when I pulled in at the airport, I noticed
the
> > > usual contingent of about 8 to 10
> > > airport rats standing around as when someone is doing a first flight
or
> > > something. I parked and walked up to the group and asked what
everyone
> > > was watching.
> > >
> > > I was then pointed to look at the east end of the runway to see
Capt.
> > > Fred's Ercoupe laying on the adjacent freeway just past the
thresh-hold,
> > > upside down. I then noticed
> > > all the flashing lights and that the Mercy-Air heli was parked there
on
> > > the freeway. Just then, Bill drove in. He was at the scene and said
Fred
> > > was pretty banged up, but
> > > managed to crawl out by himself. They life-flighted him to Sharp
> > > hospital, where later we found out he had damage to his spleen and
some
> > > other possible internal injuries.
> > > Bill said his face was like a piece of raw meat as was one of his
arms.
> > > Fred never did install shoulder harnesses in his plane, so that lap
belt
> > > was just a pivot point to slam his
> > > face against the panel.
> > >
> > > No word so far on the cause. Fred was up about an hour and a half,
> > > supposedly running the engine at full power and circling overhead.
The
> > > story gets a little muddled here.
> > > Some say that Fred did stay over the field and just misjudged when
the
> > > engine quit and overestimated his glide range. Some others said that
he
> > > wandered away from the
> > > field, as much as several miles, against Bill's advice.
> > >
> > > I could see that Bill was upset, but then he started shaking
> > > uncontrollably and started having crying jags. It was sad all
around.
> > > Fred's wife, Anna, was watching him come
> > > in through binoculars and saw him crash. There's an evergreen
nursery on
> > > the east side of the freeway, and Fred's wheels caught the
chain-link
> > > fence and it pretty much
> > > stopped him, but flipped him upside down onto the freeway. Luckily,
> > > there was a break in traffic.
> > >
> > > Hopefully he'll pull through O.K. Bill said that when he crawled
out, he
> > > asked for Bill, and when Bill showed up in a minute, Fred said: "The
> > > engine stopped! It just
> > > stopped!" The weather wasn't conducive to carb-icing, in fact it is
> > > extremely rare in this area, due to the desert-like conditions. If
the
> > > fuel pump was not working, the 6
> > > gallons in the header should not have been enough for him to stay up
> > > that long, especially at full power. There is also a bobber gauge
right
> > > in front of the pilot's nose. If that
> > > thing goes down a 1/2 inch, any Ercoupe pilot would notice it
> > > immediately. The 2 wing tanks are joined and the fuel pump merely
pumps
> > > fuel up to the header tank, where
> > > it garvity-feeds to the carb and the excess flows back to the wing
> > > tanks.
> > >
> > > I have one idea, but don't know if it's valid. When I bought one of
my
> > > Coupes, the engine had just been rebuilt and they forgot to put the
> > > fire-sleeve back on the short hose
> > > that feeds the fuel from the header to the carb. It passes right
next to
> > > some exhaust components. On hot days, I started having my engine
> > > sputter, especially on climbout.
> > > Putting the nose down would usually clear it. Winds up it was
> > > vapor-lock, and it cleared with the nose down, as there was enough
> > > pressure to overcome it. In a climb, that
> > > fuel line was almost horizontal. After installing a short piece of
> > > fire-sleeve, the problem never appeared again.
> > >
> > > I asked Bill if there was a fire-sleeve on that hose, and he said
there
> > > wasn't one. I'm guessing that previously, with the baffling all
broken
> > > and ratty, there might have been
> > > enough air to keep it cool. After Bill redid all the baffling, maybe
> > > there wasn't enough airflow around that hose and vapor-lock took
over.
> > > Apparently it didn't clear when
> > > he was nose down like mine would, but with new, efficient baffling,
> > > maybe it kept enough heat in where that wouldn't overcome it.
> > >
> > > No one knows for sure where the engine exactly quit. I talked with
the
> > > Mercy-Air pilot, and he said that Fred got a "Mayday" out a little
> > > before he crashed. He was on his
> > > way in when the tower asked him to loiter awhile, as they had a
plane in
> > > distress. The pilot said in a few moments he asked where the plane
now
> > > was and was told it
> > > crashed onto the freeway. They got there and landed within a minute,
as
> > > they were hovering or circling on the other end of the field. Pilot
said
> > > that was the very first time
> > > that he was ever the first one on a scene. Fred's plane had all 3
lanes
> > > blocked, so he was able to land right next it.
> > >
> > > Anyway, that's the latest from "Charlie" row at Gillespie Field, CA.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > MACINTOSH(r)...because everything else is just a peecee.
> > > WINTEL...the cubic zirconium of computers.(c)
> > > "What a man has honestly acquired is absolutely his own, which he
may
> > > freely give, but cannot be taken from him without his consent."
> > > - Samuel Adams (1768)
> > > "A true man, like a true horse, runs with his own breed."
> > > -From KIM by Rudyard Kipling
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
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>
> --
> Mr. D. Wayne Woollard, CPBE
> AIM: DWWoollard
> ICQ: 124132836
>
> "Why fly a Spam can when you can have fun and fly an Ercoupe?"
>
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