Actually, I think Geoff's post, together with your reply, does help
articulate the problem some of us are having.
I use Thunderbird with its auto-bcc option whenever I am at home. When I
am on a mobile device, such as an iPad or iPhone, Thunderbird is not an
option. When I am constrained to only a mobile device is the only time
that I resort to using Gmail to send messages or replies, which does
require me to remember to manually include a bcc to myself if I want to
emulate the automatic process of Thunderbird (BTW, I do use the IMAP
configuration, which is probably why I use Gmail at all). Indeed, this
reply to the group is being sent by Thunderbird for that very reason.
Additionally, I send from my ISP a bcc not only to my Gmail account from
which it is sent, but also to a non-Gmail account that is not owith my
ISP provider so that I can receive verification not only that my e-mail
left my ISP but also was received by an independent unrelated ISP and
also see how it is displayed to the recipient.
Perhaps that is overkill (with redundant copies) from Google's apparent
myopic viewpoint, but for me, it is SOP and a practice I do not wish to
have to forego by depending only on web-based Gmail as a method of
communication.
I hope this clarifies in some respect the problem that both Geoff and I
(and the untold-numbers who have preceded us over the years in this
group and have otherwise attempted to get a straight answer from Google)
are talking about. As I said before, I am very doubtful that Google will
be responsive to addressing this problem since I'm sure many others have
called it to their attention, not only in this group, but to the Google
team directly.
Thank you in advance for any constructive solution that you might
suggest. As you have stated, I understand you are only a fellow user,
with no affiliation to Google either as an employee or contractor,
direct or indirect.
Finally, in my wildest dreams, I cannot imagine that the "Google team"
does not have at least one employee, whose job is to monitor groups such
as this. I do hope whoever that person is he or she is not posting here
without identifying his or herself as a Gmail related employee or
contractor in defending Google's unaddressed policy on this issue ( or
"problem" for some of us).
Have a great Memorial Day weekend -- and don't forget to bcc yourself on
any reply if you send it from web-based Gmail! <g>
On 5/25/2013 11:02 AM, Zack (Doc) wrote:
OK, but now you've added to the confusion.
#1, depending on how you set up your Thunderbird, it's not actually
placing a copy in Sent, but is in fact pulling that folder over IMAP;
meaning the GMail servers do indeed have a copy, so it went outward.
In fact, if you followed the GMail Help page on setting up
Thunderbird, that's exactly the way it's set up. They advise against
the direct copy because then you'll have duplicates.
#2, Thunderbird has an auto-bcc option, so why would you need GMail to
do it?
On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 9:15 AM, Geoff Briggs
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
Sorry for any confusion; perhaps I can explain!
Perhaps I needed to say that I am not using the web browser to
read and write emails: they are currently going through
Thunderbird on my work PC, as this way I can have one program open
with all my various emails in it; whether they come from my work
account or my various home accounts. I am contacting Gmail via
IMAP, and so 'Inbox' forms a separate folder and so doesn't thread
messages from 'sent'. The same happens if I label messages as they
appear in my 'inbox', effectively copying them to specific
folders. I guess I could just look at the 'all' folder at all
times, but I prefer to separate current active messages from those
which have been dealt with and archived. I would have exactly the
same situation if I used Outlook or any other IMAP based method of
contacting my Gmail.
This also explains my second point: all emails have to go through
the work SMTP server: any other routes for sending out emails from
Thunderbird (or Outlook, etc) are blocked (apart from opening a
web browser and using the web version of Gmail). When I write a
message from my Gmail account on my machine, it places a copy in
'Sent'. This is a simple copying procedure, and so doesn't involve
the SMTP servers at all. To be certain that a message has actually
got through my work SMTP queue, I need it to go into the ether,
arrive at the Gmail servers, and then download it via IMAP.
Does this make things clearer?
On Friday, 24 May 2013 06:28:15 UTC+1, Zack Tennant wrote:
Geoff,
Your messages confuses me more than most in this thread. If
you have conversation view on (the default), then the messages
are threaded together, including your replies. They are not
split. I'm looking at this thread that way right now. When I
hit send, the message that I'm typing now will be at the
bottom of my conversation view.
And as a network engineer, I regret to inform you that #2 is
not happening. All you're telling yourself that way is that
it made it to YOUR server. The sent message present in GMail
by default tells you the same thing. You're not actually
gaining any information with a BCC.
Finally, yes, when GMail detects what it considered a
duplicate of a message that it has already, it will delete it
automatically.
On Thu, May 23, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Geoff Briggs
<[email protected]> wrote:
Several people seem to have a big problem with *why*
anyone would want to BCC themselves and have the BCCed
messgae stored in their 'inbox' rather than in their
'sent' folder. These are the two reasons why *I* want to
be able to do this.
1. I would like my replies to messages to be part of the
conversation thread: I want to be able to look at a
threaded message and not only see whether I sent a reply,
but also see what I said. If the messages are split
between 2 different folders (labels) then the messages are
combined in a single thread.
2. I want to be certain that my messages have actually got
out 'into the ether'. When at work, I have to send
messages through my work smtp server, and the only way I
know that any email I have sent has actually left the
local work network is if I BCC myself. If a message
returns to me through BCC, then I know it has also been
delivered to the main recipient's system (even if not to
the recipients mailbox). Having a copy of my message
simply copied to 'sent' does not prove the message has
been successfully sent.
As it is, I find that many of my BCCed messages to myself
actually end up in 'Bin', presumably because Gmail realise
it's a duplicate (with the copy in 'sent' and so deletes
the additional one!
On Thursday, 23 May 2013 03:16:06 UTC+1, Frank St. Claire
wrote:
Every reply (most of which seem to come from "Zac")
dance around the problem, which is pretty simple:
*1. You want to have a copy of each email you send
sent to yourself as if you had manually listed
yourself as a bcc recipient -- which is gets very old
to do manually after you've done it for awhile.*
2. While almost every email service (e.g., Mozilla
Thunderbird with IMAP settings) provides such an
option, Gmail apparently does not -- despite years of
everyone's pleas.
3. *You don't want to use conversation mode* -- which
some find distracting AND
4. *You don't want to have to search your "sent"
folder for a copy of your own email sent to others*
(see item 1 above).
and for clarification, this question is NOT:
1. related to CRM (I don't care whatever that is and
don't want to know) or
2. a philosophical issue.
and finally:
1. Does Google listen to their users or has it turned
a deaf ear to a legitimate multi-year request?
2. BTW, we accepted Google's limitation of two levels
of "nesting" of mail folders with its multiple
"labels" -- which is probably due to a limit in
Gmail's design architecture, but
3. If this current issue (i.e., *see item 1 in the
first paragraph* if you forgot to read it there or
didn't fully comprehend the simple scope of this
query) is a design issue here, either:
a. fix it or
b. "cowboy-up" to the problem -- instead of using
what appear to be stalking horse apologists in this
user group to qualm the incessantly beating drums of
discontent from some of your most ardent supporters
over this simple question.
Thanks in advance to anyone who has the courage and
intelligence to address this issue directly as
presented above (i.e., *see item 1 in the first
paragraph* above if you have not done so by now)
without any of the tangential responses evidenced by
this multi-year thread to date.
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