Re: [GRN] Re: Dutch map ‘stolen from the Portuguese’

Fri, 04 Oct 2024 17:17:54 -0700

Yes. But there were also educated Portuguese who praised the local people and the local culture in Goa. 
I do not believe the Dutch named academic institutions in the Netherlands after the natives of the lands they occupied. Or built statues 
honoring those natives.
The English did not do that either as far as I know. Quite the opposite.
And they never declared those natives as citizens of their countries. Or declared that those lands were part of their Fatherland.
In the 16th and 17th centuries the Portuguese passed anti-Hindu laws in Goa they did not enforce and to which they opened many exceptions. Linschoten wrote that all religions were freely practiced in Goa in his time.
There were many Hindus in Goa who actively and willingly cooperated with the Portuguese. To call them “traitors” on the basis of our current political views is absurd.
In truth the history of Goa is full of paradoxes and contradictions precluding generalizations.

John M. de Figueiredo 
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 4, 2024, at 4:52 AM, Joao Paulo Cota <[email protected]> wrote:


Quite a few historical books mention about the nature of Portuguese who went to places like Goa. They were often uneducated, from the country side, rough, brutes and with hardly any etiquete.
Hence, their needs were obviously more of a very basic nature...
Possibly why race was never an issue to them to have personal relationships with the native population, as long as their personal needs were met.
Also, on other reference material, educated Portuguese often made highly derogatory remarks on the native population, calling them 'barbarians' and 'savages'. Of course, the average natives of the land would not have any universities and libraries to get themselves any refined education. Making such lame comparisons, only showed their lack of intellect and reasoning, despite having attended schools and colleges.
There is hardly any evidence that these higher class colonisers have mingled as much with the local 'barbarian' populace, as much as the uneducated, coloniser 'brutes' did.
Hence there was an unspoken, racial issue based on social class.
Vasco da Gama never discovered India, the arabs did in the 8th century. He would ha been nowhere if not for the help of the Omani navigator Ibn Majid who had been requested to guide VDG to the Malabar coast in india in 1498.
Else he would had met the same fate as Colombo the drunkard, who got lost in the Carribean and assuming he reached India, called the place the West Indies.
History needs a bit of an update.      

From: 'Nuno Cardoso da Silva' via Goa-Research-Net <[email protected]>
Sent: 03 October 2024 11:23
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [GRN] Re: Dutch map ‘stolen from the Portuguese’
 
Alberto,
The Portuguese stole as much as any other nation. The Portuguese difference was the willingness of mixing with other ethnic groups, from the casual sexual intercourse to marriage and to the ability to "go native". We might on occasion consider the "natives" primitive, but that never stopped us from having normal intercourse with them. Considerations of racial purity never came to our minds. We might not have been very tolerant in respect of religion, but race differences never bothered us...
 
Nuno Cardoso da Silva
 
 
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2024 at 11:40 AM
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [GRN] Re: Dutch map ‘stolen from the Portuguese’

 

John. Vasco (Vasco foi Gamar, as some Portuguese say) attacked ships in the Indian Ocean, killed their crew and looted everything. Do you think the Portuguese were different?  What do you think of the black slaves from Africa taken to the American continent? The Inquisition in Goa? You cannot whitewash the history recorded and archived in France, Venice and Florence (Italy), the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, India, etc. (The verb Gamar in Portuguese means to steal).
Alberto, professor aposentado de Historia.
 
----- Mensagem de John de Figueiredo <[email protected]> ---------
Data: Wed, 2 Oct 2024 13:07:12 -0400
De: John de Figueiredo <[email protected]>
Assunto: Re: [GRN] Re: Dutch map ‘stolen from the Portuguese’
 

SOME Europeans “did everything they could to get their hands on the wealth of the Asians”. But there were other Europeans (Portuguese) who did not do that and some who called to task those who stole (like Vasco da Gama when he was Viceroy of Portuguese India).

John M. de Figueiredo 
 
Sent from my iPhone
 
On Oct 2, 2024, at 11:15 AM, [email protected] wrote:
 

 
 

 

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