For the Vasco da Gama guide to India, https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/gujarati-showed-vasco-da-way/articleshow/6674395.cms [https://static.toiimg.com/thumb/msid-47529300,width-1070,height-580,imgsize-110164,resizemode-75,overlay-toi_sw,pt-32,y_pad-40/photo.jpg]<https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/gujarati-showed-vasco-da-way/articleshow/6674395.cms> Gujarati showed Vasco 'da' way | Ahmedabad News - Times of India<https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/gujarati-showed-vasco-da-way/articleshow/6674395.cms> When Portuguese explorer Vasco da Gama discovered Europe-to-India sea route in 1497, he had a Gujarati by his side to show him the way. Historians and timesofindia.indiatimes.com I won't be surprised is this crazy theory is being peddled by the likes of fundamentalist RSS and BJP - in their quest to promote their own versions of real events by evoking native heroes - as they are keen on erasing all kinds of history that do not match their narative. Ahmad Ibn Majid was a 'foreign' Muslim, I need say no more...
For the local Goan students leaving St Paul's college, https://archive.org/details/st.francisxavier/page/n229/mode/2up [https://archive.org/services/img/st.francisxavier]<https://archive.org/details/st.francisxavier/page/n229/mode/2up> Saint Francis Xavier, apostle of the East. : Margaret Yeo : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive<https://archive.org/details/st.francisxavier/page/n229/mode/2up> New York : Macm., 1932. archive.org This book has a few inconsistencies, but seems to give the right information as she has cross referenced works like G Schurhammer, P L Cros, O Torsellini amongst others. ________________________________ From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of John de Figueiredo <[email protected]> Sent: 07 October 2024 01:03 To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GRN] Re: Dutch map ‘stolen from the Portuguese’ May I ask you to give me the sources where you obtained this information? John M. de Figueiredo Sent from my iPhone On Oct 6, 2024, at 2:50 PM, Joao Paulo Cota <[email protected]> wrote: I am not sure a comment seen by Sinthia Salvadori can definitely confirm this Gujrati Malam was the one who has guided VDG to India. Why would and Indian guide an invader to his own country? Unless there is solid proof of that, confirmed by multiple sources, it is just a theory. About this expulsion of the Jesuit, I take you are talking about Antonio Gomez, who was then the rector of St Paul's college. His problem was not racist at the beginning. He was educated to a very high standard in Europe and had a tough syllabus to follow, much higher that Francis and Ignatius followed themselves. He has disobeyed Francis Xavier's orders (to implement the normal Jesuit led curriculum for them) - that was principle upon which the college was founded - to educate the local Goans to be Jesuit priests. As a result of this tough syllabus, some local students gave up and others ran away from the college by climbing back compound walls. He then he went further to replace them with Portuguese students who could barely read or write. His frustration was because the normal village boy could grasp the subject matter being imposed by him, I don't think it was racial in nature. I would think if had stuck to the normal curiculum, the local boys would had done well and none of this would had happened. (He was actually not expelled but just relieved of his post and assigned elsewhere - but then due to different local protests and petitions, Francis Xavier retracted back and gave him the original post back with new conditions) ________________________________ From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of John de Figueiredo <[email protected]> Sent: 04 October 2024 09:41 To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GRN] Re: Dutch map ‘stolen from the Portuguese’ Small correction. Ibn Majid was not the Muslim pilot who helped Vasco da Gama according to current research. Sometimes connecting the dots is as important as discovering something anew. Einstein, Watson, and Crick connected the dots. Vasco da Gama connected the dots. This was a major contribution for which he deserves credit. Moreover, during his brief tenure as Viceroy (yes, he was in Goa) he took drastic measures to end the stealing and the corruption. Nobility also married Goan natives or lived with them. An example was Diogo Rodrigues “o do Forte” who demolished Hindu temples (and this action of his was condemned by the Senate of Goa, then composed only of Portuguese Europeans). He married a Goan woman (Hindu converted to Catholicism) and became the owner of a large property in Colva’. This so-called “miscegenation” of the Portuguese was condemned by Linschoten who was a racist. There was racism (and “castism”) in Goa before the arrival of the Portuguese. There was also death by fire in Goa before the arrival of the Portuguese, a practice the Portuguese ended. There was racism throughout the Portuguese Empire. But my point is that not every Portuguese or European who came to Goa was a racist or a thief. Some, like Francis Xavier and Luiz de Camões, condemned the stealing and corruption. Francis Xavier fired a fellow Jesuit (European) and expelled him from the Society of Jesus Christ because he had engaged in a racist behavior against the Goans while he (Xavier) was away from Goa. John M. de Figueiredo Sent from my iPhone On Oct 4, 2024, at 4:52 AM, Joao Paulo Cota <[email protected]> wrote: Quite a few historical books mention about the nature of Portuguese who went to places like Goa. They were often uneducated, from the country side, rough, brutes and with hardly any etiquete. Hence, their needs were obviously more of a very basic nature... Possibly why race was never an issue to them to have personal relationships with the native population, as long as their personal needs were met. Also, on other reference material, educated Portuguese often made highly derogatory remarks on the native population, calling them 'barbarians' and 'savages'. Of course, the average natives of the land would not have any universities and libraries to get themselves any refined education. Making such lame comparisons, only showed their lack of intellect and reasoning, despite having attended schools and colleges. There is hardly any evidence that these higher class colonisers have mingled as much with the local 'barbarian' populace, as much as the uneducated, coloniser 'brutes' did. Hence there was an unspoken, racial issue based on social class. Vasco da Gama never discovered India, the arabs did in the 8th century. He would ha been nowhere if not for the help of the Omani navigator Ibn Majid who had been requested to guide VDG to the Malabar coast in india in 1498. Else he would had met the same fate as Colombo the drunkard, who got lost in the Carribean and assuming he reached India, called the place the West Indies. History needs a bit of an update. ________________________________ From: 'Nuno Cardoso da Silva' via Goa-Research-Net <[email protected]> Sent: 03 October 2024 11:23 To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GRN] Re: Dutch map ‘stolen from the Portuguese’ Alberto, The Portuguese stole as much as any other nation. The Portuguese difference was the willingness of mixing with other ethnic groups, from the casual sexual intercourse to marriage and to the ability to "go native". We might on occasion consider the "natives" primitive, but that never stopped us from having normal intercourse with them. Considerations of racial purity never came to our minds. We might not have been very tolerant in respect of religion, but race differences never bothered us... Nuno Cardoso da Silva Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2024 at 11:40 AM From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [GRN] Re: Dutch map ‘stolen from the Portuguese’ John. Vasco (Vasco foi Gamar, as some Portuguese say) attacked ships in the Indian Ocean, killed their crew and looted everything. Do you think the Portuguese were different? What do you think of the black slaves from Africa taken to the American continent? The Inquisition in Goa? You cannot whitewash the history recorded and archived in France, Venice and Florence (Italy), the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, India, etc. (The verb Gamar in Portuguese means to steal). Alberto, professor aposentado de Historia. ----- Mensagem de John de Figueiredo <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> --------- Data: Wed, 2 Oct 2024 13:07:12 -0400 De: John de Figueiredo <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Assunto: Re: [GRN] Re: Dutch map ‘stolen from the Portuguese’ Para: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> SOME Europeans “did everything they could to get their hands on the wealth of the Asians”. But there were other Europeans (Portuguese) who did not do that and some who called to task those who stole (like Vasco da Gama when he was Viceroy of Portuguese India). John M. de Figueiredo Sent from my iPhone On Oct 2, 2024, at 11:15 AM, [email protected] wrote: -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/20241003114023.Horde.6BLa4iBDfX1aNFlBl36roEL%40mail.sapo.pt<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/20241003114023.Horde.6BLa4iBDfX1aNFlBl36roEL%40mail.sapo.pt?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group. 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