On Oct 12, 2014, at 4:50 PM, Marcin Wojnarski <mwojnar...@paperity.org> wrote:
> Dear Stevan, > We started with Gold, because we believe that journals play a fundamental > role in the system > of scholarly communication and every service that tries to facilitate access > to literature must > start with journals, not only with a flat collection of papers like the one > found in repositories. Dear Marcin, I think there may be a fundamental misunderstanding here. Green OA consists of self-archived journal articles and their bibliographic metadata — including journal name. And institutional repositories consist of an institution’s journal article output. Nothing “flat” about those! Were you perhaps thinking that repositories just contain unpublished preprints and gray literature? > For 400 years, journals have been the backbone of the system, the main > structural element. I don’t understand why you are pointing this out: From the very outset the Open Access movement has been very specifically about opening access to journal articles. Please see the original BOAI statement: http://www.budapestopenaccessinitiative.org/read "The literature that should be freely accessible online is that which scholars give to the world without expectation of payment. Primarily, this category encompasses their peer-reviewed journal articles…" > They provide a brand name for papers, create consistent editoral policy and > take responsibility > for the quality and relevance of articles they publish - these features are > of topmost importance > for readers, without them navigating through millions of articles becomes > infeasible. Marcin, it remains clear why you are telling us this. We all know it. What I asked you was: >> Harvesting Gold OA journal articles is a piece of cake. How will >> Paperity/redex harvest >> Green OA articles published in non-OA journals but made OA somewhere on the >> Web > That said, we're fully aware how much great unique content there is in > repositories and we’d > like very much to merge these two streams - Gold and Green - in Paperity at > some point. The great unique content in repositories is the very same great unique content that there is in journals. Gold OA and Green OA both consist of journal articles. There are many more non-Gold journals and non-Gold journal-articles than Gold ones. Why is Paperity focusing on Gold? Why is all the rest only to be merged "at some point”? And how, exactly? > Although there are some tensions inside OA community between the Gold and > Green camps, > I think they are unjustified, because these routes are complementary, not > competitive. You are quite right, the two roads to OA are complementary, not competitive. But in order to complement one another they must both be clearly understood, and much of the tension is about misunderstandings, for example, that OA = Gold OA while Green OA is about something else (preprints, gray literature). And another point of tension is about priorities: Which needs to come first, Gold or Green? (My own reply is that it is for many important reasons Green that must come first: (1) because Green does not cost the author money, (2) because Green can be mandated by institutions and funders, and (3) because by coming first Green will make subscriptions unsustainable, force journals to cut obsolete costs, downsize to providing peer review alone, and convert to to affordable, sustainable, Fair Gold instead of today’s over-priced, double-paid pre-Green Fools Gold. http://j.mp/fairgoldOA > As to indexing, it is actually much easier to be done for repositories than > for journals, > because most repos expose standardized interfaces. Then why is Paperity starting with Gold OA journal articles instead of Green OA journal articles in repositories? > So we don't need Google Scholar for this purpose, only as I said, we believe > that the > right order is journals first. What you have said it that you believe the right order is Gold OA first, but you have certainly not explained why — apart from the fact that Gold OA is certainly much easier to access and aggregate: Gold OA journal article blibliographic data can be harvested from the journals’ websites using DOAJ to identify all the journals. But how are you going to find all the Green OA journal articles, if not with Google Scholar? (WoS or SCOPUS can find you all journal articles, but but won’t tell you which ones are Green OA.) (BASE provides some of these data; ROAR 2.0 will soon provide it all.) Best wishes, Stevan > > Best > Marcin > > > On 10/12/2014 01:51 PM, Stevan Harnad wrote: >> Harvesting Gold OA journal articles is a piece of cake. How will >> Paperity/redex harvest >> Green OA articles published in non-OA journals but made OA somewhere on the >> Web — via Google Scholar? >> >> Sounds like a splendid idea if it can be done… But not if it is just >> Gold-biassed, >> because most refereed research is not Gold, and the fastest growing form of >> OA is Green (because of mandates, and absence of extra cost). >> >> SH >> > > > -- > Marcin Wojnarski, Founder of Paperity, www.paperity.org > www.linkedin.com/in/marcinwojnarski > www.facebook.com/Paperity > www.twitter.com/Paperity > > Paperity. Open science aggregated. > _______________________________________________ > GOAL mailing list > GOAL@eprints.org > http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
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