Stevan,
Repositories are not an authoritative source of metadata about
paper-journal relation. Metadata is put there by authors themselves and
it can be missing, incomplete or erroneous, in extreme cases even fake.
Thus in practice repository collections are flat even if metadata is
present.
If you think that finding Green articles is impossible, then you shall
not be surprised that we focus on Gold first, right?
Best
Marcin
On 10/13/2014 02:14 PM, Stevan Harnad wrote:
On Oct 12, 2014, at 4:50 PM, Marcin Wojnarski <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Dear Stevan,
We started with Gold, because we believe that journals play a
fundamental role in the system
of scholarly communication and every service that tries to facilitate
access to literature must
start with journals, not only with a flat collection of papers like
the one found in repositories.
Dear Marcin,
I think there may be a fundamental misunderstanding here.
Green OA consists of self-archived *journal articles* and their
bibliographic metadata — including
journal name.
And institutional repositories consist of an institution’s *journal
article* output.
Nothing “flat” about those!
Were you perhaps thinking that repositories just contain unpublished
preprints and gray
literature?
For 400 years, journals have been the backbone of the system, the
main structural element.
I don’t understand why you are pointing this out: From the very outset
the Open Access movement
has been very specifically about opening access to *journal articles*.
Please see the original BOAI statement:
http://www.budapestopenaccessinitiative.org/read
/"The literature that should be freely accessible online is that
which scholars /
/give to the world without expectation of payment. Primarily, this
category /
/encompasses their *peer-reviewed journal articles*…"/
They provide a brand name for papers, create consistent editoral
policy and take responsibility
for the quality and relevance of articles they publish - these
features are of topmost importance
for readers, without them navigating through millions of articles
becomes infeasible.
Marcin, it remains clear why you are telling us this. We all know it.
What I asked you was:
Harvesting Gold OA journal articles is a piece of cake. How will
Paperity/redex harvest
*Green OA articles published in non-OA journals* but made OA
somewhere on the
Web
That said, we're fully aware how much great unique content there is
in repositories and we’d
like very much to merge these two streams - Gold and Green - in
Paperity at some point.
The great unique content in repositories is the very same great unique
content that there is in journals.
Gold OA and Green OA both consist of *journal articles*. There are
many more non-Gold journals
and non-Gold journal-articles than Gold ones.
Why is Paperity focusing on Gold?
Why is all the rest only to be merged "at some point”?
And how, exactly?
Although there are some tensions inside OA community between the Gold
and Green camps,
I think they are unjustified, because these routes are complementary,
not competitive.
You are quite right, the two roads to OA are complementary, not
competitive.
But in order to complement one another they must both be clearly
understood, and much
of the tension is about misunderstandings, for example, that OA = Gold
OA while Green OA
is about something else (preprints, gray literature).
And another point of tension is about priorities: Which needs to come
first, Gold or Green?
(My own reply is that it is for many important reasons Green that must
come first: (1) because
Green does not cost the author money, (2) because Green can be
mandated by institutions and
funders, and (3) because by coming first Green will make subscriptions
unsustainable, force
journals to cut obsolete costs, downsize to providing peer review
alone, and convert to
to affordable, sustainable, Fair Gold instead of today’s over-priced,
double-paid pre-Green Fools Gold.
http://j.mp/fairgoldOA
As to indexing, it is actually much easier to be done for
repositories than for journals,
because most repos expose standardized interfaces.
Then why is Paperity starting with Gold OA journal articles instead of
Green OA journal
articles in repositories?
So we don't need Google Scholar for this purpose, only as I said, we
believe that the
right order is journals first.
What you have said it that you believe the right order is Gold OA
first, but you have
certainly not explained why — apart from the fact that Gold OA is
certainly much
/easier/ to access and aggregate:
Gold OA journal article blibliographic data can be harvested from the
journals’
websites using DOAJ to identify all the journals.
But how are you going to find all the Green OA journal articles, if
not with
Google Scholar? (WoS or SCOPUS can find you all journal articles, but
but won’t tell you which ones are Green OA.)
(BASE provides some of these data; ROAR 2.0 will soon provide it all.)
Best wishes,
Stevan
Best
Marcin
On 10/12/2014 01:51 PM, Stevan Harnad wrote:
Harvesting Gold OA journal articles is a piece of cake. How will
Paperity/redex harvest
Green OA articles published in non-OA journals but made OA somewhere
on the
Web — via Google Scholar?
Sounds like a splendid idea if it can be done… But not if it is just
Gold-biassed,
because most refereed research is not Gold, and the fastest growing
form of
OA is Green (because of mandates, and absence of extra cost).
SH
--
Marcin Wojnarski, Founder of Paperity,www.paperity.org
www.linkedin.com/in/marcinwojnarski
www.facebook.com/Paperity
www.twitter.com/Paperity
Paperity. Open science aggregated.
_______________________________________________
GOAL mailing list
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
_______________________________________________
GOAL mailing list
[email protected]
http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
--
Marcin Wojnarski, Founder of Paperity, www.paperity.org
www.linkedin.com/in/marcinwojnarski
www.facebook.com/Paperity
www.twitter.com/Paperity
Paperity. Open science aggregated.
_______________________________________________
GOAL mailing list
[email protected]
http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
