On 12/19/13, 12:12 PM, Majken Connor wrote:
I don't think this sub-thread is appropriate for the list. Asa, if you aren't sure an email is addressed to you, why not clarify off list? Your response was incredibly defensive and didn't leave much room for Ehsan to provide a collaborative response. Your words come very close to "I am right and you are wrong." You focused on how you thought Ehsan was wrong in his evaluation of your words, and how your original statement was correct. A collaborative reply - reframing your original point with the intent for other people to understand it, not defend your original word choice - could have gotten your point across just as well without focusing the conversation on to you.
It doesn't bother me at all that this comes off as defensive. I was defending myself against a bogus charge. Why should I be dragged off-topic because someone wants to put words in my mouth or argue against points I've never made and don't intend to make.
I introduced my concern -- that Mozillians in the West often drop in to discussions like this with little or no local context and propose that other Mozillians in other radically different areas of the world should "just do what we do in California and it'll all be great" as if it was all that simple and easy. I consider those kinds of naive suggestions unhelpful and in some cases even insulting to the people who have put in huge Mozilla efforts spanning years (a decade even) trying to figure out these radically different markets that don't behave at all like how most Western Mozillians expect.
I think mine was a completely valid reply to that part of Chris' comments and as appropriate as any other comment in this discussion thread. If you or Ehsan would like to address my comments instead of the comments you imagine I'm making, I'm happy to engage but I am not at all interested in defending Mozilla Online's actions here, or even proposing alternative solutions, so I'm not going to be dragged into that conversation because Ehsan seems to want me there or can't see that I'm not going there.
- A
On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Asa Dotzler <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:On 12/19/13, 7:38 AM, Ehsan Akhgari wrote: On 12/18/2013, 11:49 PM, Asa Dotzler wrote: On 12/18/13, 8:35 PM, Ehsan Akhgari wrote: On 12/18/2013, 5:03 PM, Asa Dotzler wrote: On 12/17/13, 8:30 PM, Chris Peterson wrote: > Instead Mozilla should shine light on these companies' unscrupulous > behavior and win users with respectful privacy solutions. I think this could be an Western biased view. Why do you believe that Chinese users will be receptive to those kinds of messages? My limited experience suggests that, in general, they won't be. In that case Mozilla should do nothing. What you said is not an argument for fighting fire with fire. Is this addressed to me? I did not make and do not claim any such argument or prescription. You argued that Chris' point is coming from a western point of view and won't work on Chinese users, and I suggested that if that's true, then we should have done nothing. I made no other argument than calling Chris' approach naive. If you'd like to engage me in a discussion of what options there are besides "do nothing" and "fight fire with fire" we can do that, but if you'll re-read what I wrote, you'll see that I carefully stayed away from prescriptions because that wasn't the point I thought most important. My post was intended to point out that the strategies we employ in the West naively applied to China probably won't work - and nothing more. - A _______________________________________________ governance mailing list [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance
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