FWIW neither of Asa's emails came across as offensive to me, it was just
a misunderstanding. I thought he was making a point which he wasn't.
No hard feelings here!
Cheers,
Ehsan
On 12/19/2013, 4:07 PM, Majken Connor wrote:
Asa,
For the record I have no problem with your initial message that Ehsan
replied to. It's how you handled Ehsan's replies.
On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Asa Dotzler <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 12/19/13, 12:12 PM, Majken Connor wrote:
I don't think this sub-thread is appropriate for the list. Asa, if
you aren't sure an email is addressed to you, why not clarify off
list? Your response was incredibly defensive and didn't leave much
room for Ehsan to provide a collaborative response. Your words
come very close to "I am right and you are wrong." You focused on
how you thought Ehsan was wrong in his evaluation of your words,
and how your original statement was correct. A collaborative reply
- reframing your original point with the intent for other people
to understand it, not defend your original word choice - could
have gotten your point across just as well without focusing the
conversation on to you.
It doesn't bother me at all that this comes off as defensive. I was
defending myself against a bogus charge. Why should I be dragged
off-topic because someone wants to put words in my mouth or argue
against points I've never made and don't intend to make.
I introduced my concern -- that Mozillians in the West often drop in
to discussions like this with little or no local context and propose
that other Mozillians in other radically different areas of the
world should "just do what we do in California and it'll all be
great" as if it was all that simple and easy. I consider those
kinds of naive suggestions unhelpful and in some cases even
insulting to the people who have put in huge Mozilla efforts
spanning years (a decade even) trying to figure out these radically
different markets that don't behave at all like how most Western
Mozillians expect.
I think mine was a completely valid reply to that part of Chris'
comments and as appropriate as any other comment in this discussion
thread. If you or Ehsan would like to address my comments instead
of the comments you imagine I'm making, I'm happy to engage but I am
not at all interested in defending Mozilla Online's actions here, or
even proposing alternative solutions, so I'm not going to be dragged
into that conversation because Ehsan seems to want me there or can't
see that I'm not going there.
- A
On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Asa Dotzler <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 12/19/13, 7:38 AM, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
On 12/18/2013, 11:49 PM, Asa Dotzler wrote:
On 12/18/13, 8:35 PM, Ehsan Akhgari wrote:
On 12/18/2013, 5:03 PM, Asa Dotzler wrote:
On 12/17/13, 8:30 PM, Chris Peterson wrote:
> Instead Mozilla should shine light on these
companies' unscrupulous
> behavior and win users with respectful
privacy solutions.
I think this could be an Western biased view.
Why do you believe that
Chinese users will be receptive to those kinds
of messages? My limited
experience suggests that, in general, they
won't be.
In that case Mozilla should do nothing. What you
said is not an
argument for fighting fire with fire.
Is this addressed to me? I did not make and do not
claim any such
argument or prescription.
You argued that Chris' point is coming from a western
point of view and won't work on Chinese users, and I
suggested that if that's true, then we should have done
nothing.
I made no other argument than calling Chris' approach naive.
If you'd like to engage me in a discussion of what options
there are besides "do nothing" and "fight fire with fire" we
can do that, but if you'll re-read what I wrote, you'll see
that I carefully stayed away from prescriptions because that
wasn't the point I thought most important.
My post was intended to point out that the strategies we
employ in the West naively applied to China probably won't
work - and nothing more.
- A
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