Asa, For the record I have no problem with your initial message that Ehsan replied to. It's how you handled Ehsan's replies.
On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Asa Dotzler <[email protected]> wrote: > On 12/19/13, 12:12 PM, Majken Connor wrote: > > I don't think this sub-thread is appropriate for the list. Asa, if you > aren't sure an email is addressed to you, why not clarify off list? Your > response was incredibly defensive and didn't leave much room for Ehsan to > provide a collaborative response. Your words come very close to "I am right > and you are wrong." You focused on how you thought Ehsan was wrong in his > evaluation of your words, and how your original statement was correct. A > collaborative reply - reframing your original point with the intent for > other people to understand it, not defend your original word choice - could > have gotten your point across just as well without focusing the > conversation on to you. > > > It doesn't bother me at all that this comes off as defensive. I was > defending myself against a bogus charge. Why should I be dragged off-topic > because someone wants to put words in my mouth or argue against points I've > never made and don't intend to make. > > I introduced my concern -- that Mozillians in the West often drop in to > discussions like this with little or no local context and propose that > other Mozillians in other radically different areas of the world should > "just do what we do in California and it'll all be great" as if it was all > that simple and easy. I consider those kinds of naive suggestions > unhelpful and in some cases even insulting to the people who have put in > huge Mozilla efforts spanning years (a decade even) trying to figure out > these radically different markets that don't behave at all like how most > Western Mozillians expect. > > I think mine was a completely valid reply to that part of Chris' comments > and as appropriate as any other comment in this discussion thread. If you > or Ehsan would like to address my comments instead of the comments you > imagine I'm making, I'm happy to engage but I am not at all interested in > defending Mozilla Online's actions here, or even proposing alternative > solutions, so I'm not going to be dragged into that conversation because > Ehsan seems to want me there or can't see that I'm not going there. > > - A > > > > > On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Asa Dotzler <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> On 12/19/13, 7:38 AM, Ehsan Akhgari wrote: >> >>> On 12/18/2013, 11:49 PM, Asa Dotzler wrote: >>> >>>> On 12/18/13, 8:35 PM, Ehsan Akhgari wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 12/18/2013, 5:03 PM, Asa Dotzler wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 12/17/13, 8:30 PM, Chris Peterson wrote: >>>>>> > Instead Mozilla should shine light on these companies' unscrupulous >>>>>> > behavior and win users with respectful privacy solutions. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think this could be an Western biased view. Why do you believe that >>>>>> Chinese users will be receptive to those kinds of messages? My limited >>>>>> experience suggests that, in general, they won't be. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In that case Mozilla should do nothing. What you said is not an >>>>> argument for fighting fire with fire. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Is this addressed to me? I did not make and do not claim any such >>>> argument or prescription. >>>> >>> >>> You argued that Chris' point is coming from a western point of view and >>> won't work on Chinese users, and I suggested that if that's true, then we >>> should have done nothing. >>> >> >> I made no other argument than calling Chris' approach naive. If you'd >> like to engage me in a discussion of what options there are besides "do >> nothing" and "fight fire with fire" we can do that, but if you'll re-read >> what I wrote, you'll see that I carefully stayed away from prescriptions >> because that wasn't the point I thought most important. >> >> My post was intended to point out that the strategies we employ in the >> West naively applied to China probably won't work - and nothing more. >> >> - A >> >> _______________________________________________ >> governance mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance >> > > > _______________________________________________ governance mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance
