I am also for open by default, but I think that we also need to take human behaviour into account, not just the technical possibilities. I think given how Mozilla operates, publicly (not just for Mozillians) available logs would be akin to streaming every conference room over vidyo by default. This is possible and this would be incredibly transparent, and people miss a *lot* of decision making and discussion from not being in the same room. But, would people remember to change their behaviour to remember that they constantly have an audience? Is this the kind of behaviour change we want? Would people just move to a different venue to be able to talk before an idea is ready for an audience? Would we just need to revisit this conversation to demand logging of the new venues? Also, what do we do about people who want a "safe place" to discuss something before sharing with an audience? Do we push them out of the community?
You shouldn't have to follow an IRC channel to stay up to date on decision making. I like the idea of being able to link to a relevant IRC conversation in a bug or in an announcement to make this easier. I agree that volunteers need to put some effort into participation, but spending hours watching meeting videos and sifting through logs is a net waste of time compared to taking good notes and announcing decisions. Having to sift through logs to find the needle in a haystack is still a form of obfuscation. How does someone know there is even something in the logs they want to see? How do they figure out where that information is? Again, I agree that project channels should be logged, I'm just saying that practically speaking, I don't know that this actually does a lot to make us effectively open. I don't think it helps people who aren't already following those channels to better follow the team or get more involved, and I think we need to think through the side-effects of a logged and public policy for somewhere that people see as contained and informal (whether consciously or sub-consciously). Regarding the bots, you can set a bot to only send a message to the same nick once, so I think that actually can be done properly. I was also on a bug ages ago to update the message you get when you connect to the server for the first time. This would also be a place to mention a privacy policy (if that wasn't already the plan). On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 2:46 PM, Mike Hoye <[email protected]> wrote: > On 2015-01-27 2:17 PM, Ehsan Akhgari wrote: > >> I'm having a really hard time parsing most of the conversation here. It >> seems that most people are under the false impression that IRC >> conversations are private by default. That is not the case. >> > > That a user's expectations are based on inaccurate information doesn't > change how the user feels when those expectations are violated. > > My only point is that this is a privacy-related thing, so while in this > case the tech is easy - as you note, that work is already done! - let's get > the user-perception part right too. > > > - mhoye > > > _______________________________________________ > governance mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance > _______________________________________________ governance mailing list [email protected] https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/governance
