--- CK VISHWANATH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 2:00 PM, C.K. Vishwanath
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I am with all the subaltern sections including
> dalit
> > muslims and dalit christians.Affirmative action
> > programmes of india should be expanded to address
> the
> > core issues of all these sections of the
> society.they
> > have to get a fair share in land and other
> properties.
> > --- ranju radha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > yea i was refering to andre's stand only ..
> > > in positive discrimination.... here the focus s
> > > "upper" castes who r
> > > discrminated
> > > in reservation the focus is SC/ST?OBCs who r
> > > discriminated
> > > where will u stand?
> > >
> > > i dont consider reservation as positive
> > > discrmantion. for me it s
> > > democratisation and equal opportunities..
> > > a castest "upper" caste d perceive it as
> > > discrmination.. so goes the
> > > arguemtns of meritocracy of
> anti-reservationsists...
> > > and andre beteile. mn
> > > srinivas, narayan murthy, etc
> > > where do u stand?
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/24/08, C.K. Vishwanath
> >
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I don't support prof.andre beteille's stand
> on
> > > > reservation.I just mentioned the usage of
> him.And
> > > he
> > > > was against that durban conference as well.
> > > > I wrote about this issue in frontier.Or
> else,you
> > > can
> > > > get it from google.
> > > > After all, are these upper castes getting
> > > reservations
> > > > ?their privilege?what was the merit of 19th
> > > century
> > > > upper caste students of madras presidency
> > > > college(dalit daiary by chandraben prasad.)
> > > >
> > > > --- ranju radha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > for me, reservation and positive
> discrimination
> > > are
> > > > > different...
> > > > > when u repeatedly use the term "positive
> > > > > discrimination" instead of
> > > > > "reservation", i think, it s a politiacl
> > > statement
> > > > > from a brahmincal stand
> > > > > point... (and u belive that there is
> > > discrmination
> > > > > against the "upper"
> > > > > caste// then u have evry right to use it...
> but
> > > i
> > > > > disagree....and everyone
> > > > > knows andre betteile's stand on
> reservation to
> > > > > Sc/sts/obcs)
> > > > >
> > > > > my prbolm is with the imagination "dalits
> are
> > > not
> > > > > capable of "... they r
> > > > > capable of any thing
> > > > > the problm does not lies with them, but in
> the
> > > > > structural inequalities
> > > > > instead of addressing it the
> state/ngo/civil
> > > society
> > > > > blame the marginallised
> > > > > and make them convenient preys of "social
> > > Uplift"
> > > > > ... this is no sense deny
> > > > > the role of state or other machinaries, but
> the
> > > > > frmwork they emply seem to
> > > > > be problematic....which need to be chnged//
> > > > > chitralekha case is a good
> > > > > example...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 3/23/08, C.K. Vishwanath
> >
> > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Prof.andre beteile gave this coinage to
> indian
> > > > > social
> > > > > > thinking.
> > > > > > --- venukm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dear Ranju,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Hegemonic imaginations of such schemes
> > > about
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > marginalized have to
> > > > > > > be contested.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is absolutely no disagreement.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > <1."It won't be in the interests of
> dalits
> > > to
> > > > > assume
> > > > > > > that they can't
> > > > > > > possibly flourish without it"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am afraid there is a little
> ambiguity
> > > > > regarding
> > > > > > > what is meant by
> > > > > > > 'it'.
> > > > > > > If 'it' means &includes
> > > > > > > all those well intentioned
> interventions and
> > > > > > > positive measures by an
> > > > > > > inclusive State with a view to
> redeeming to
> > > > > dalits
> > > > > > > everything they had
> > > > > > > long been forcibly deprived of,i will
> rather
> > > > > > > maintain that their
> > > > > > > interests will not be jeopardized by
> 'it'.
> > > > > > > Because of the factors of voilent
> > > historical
> > > > > > > deprivations against
> > > > > > > them and the continuation of such
> social
> > > order
> > > > > till
> > > > > > > the present ,their
> > > > > > > being
> > > > >
> backward,socially,educationally,economically
> > > > > > > and in many other
> > > > > > > ways,
> > > > > > > is far from just being someone's
> assemption.
> > > > > > > As large sections of the population
> and in
> > > the
> > > > > > > absence of some
> > > > > > > measures of "positive discrimination",
> that
> > > they
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > not capable of
> > > > > > > inching ahead to social ascendancy
> > > > > > > is a truth independent of anybody's
> > > assumption.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This does not mean (at least, in my
> > > reference)
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > the State or other
> > > > > > > social actors should attempt to deny
> the
> > > dalits
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > right to have
> > > > > > > say , or to air theie own visions of
> > > progress .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > <2."Is there discrimination? How?"
> > > > > > > This is a question which i wish to
> address
> > > only
> > > > > in a
> > > > > > > restricted
> > > > > > > sense,in the context of the idea of
> > > "positive
> > > > > > > discrimination".You will
> > > > > > > agree, this is not a special coinage
> > > invented by
>
=== message truncated ===
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