I don't support prof.andre beteille's stand on
reservation.I just mentioned the usage of him.And he
was against that durban conference as well.
I wrote about this issue in frontier.Or else,you can
get it from google.
After all, are these upper castes getting reservations
?their privilege?what was the merit of 19th century
upper caste students of madras presidency
college(dalit daiary by chandraben prasad.)
--- ranju radha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> for me, reservation and positive discrimination are
> different...
> when u repeatedly use the term "positive
> discrimination" instead of
> "reservation", i think, it s a politiacl statement
> from a brahmincal stand
> point... (and u belive that there is discrmination
> against the "upper"
> caste// then u have evry right to use it... but i
> disagree....and everyone
> knows andre betteile's stand on reservation to
> Sc/sts/obcs)
>
> my prbolm is with the imagination "dalits are not
> capable of "... they r
> capable of any thing
> the problm does not lies with them, but in the
> structural inequalities
> instead of addressing it the state/ngo/civil society
> blame the marginallised
> and make them convenient preys of "social Uplift"
> ... this is no sense deny
> the role of state or other machinaries, but the
> frmwork they emply seem to
> be problematic....which need to be chnged//
> chitralekha case is a good
> example...
>
>
> On 3/23/08, C.K. Vishwanath
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Prof.andre beteile gave this coinage to indian
> social
> > thinking.
> > --- venukm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Dear Ranju,
> > >
> > > "Hegemonic imaginations of such schemes about
> the
> > > marginalized have to
> > > be contested.
> > >
> > > There is absolutely no disagreement.
> > >
> > > <1."It won't be in the interests of dalits to
> assume
> > > that they can't
> > > possibly flourish without it"
> > >
> > >
> > > I am afraid there is a little ambiguity
> regarding
> > > what is meant by
> > > 'it'.
> > > If 'it' means &includes
> > > all those well intentioned interventions and
> > > positive measures by an
> > > inclusive State with a view to redeeming to
> dalits
> > > everything they had
> > > long been forcibly deprived of,i will rather
> > > maintain that their
> > > interests will not be jeopardized by 'it'.
> > > Because of the factors of voilent historical
> > > deprivations against
> > > them and the continuation of such social order
> till
> > > the present ,their
> > > being
> backward,socially,educationally,economically
> > > and in many other
> > > ways,
> > > is far from just being someone's assemption.
> > > As large sections of the population and in the
> > > absence of some
> > > measures of "positive discrimination", that they
> are
> > > not capable of
> > > inching ahead to social ascendancy
> > > is a truth independent of anybody's assumption.
> > >
> > > This does not mean (at least, in my reference)
> that
> > > the State or other
> > > social actors should attempt to deny the dalits
> the
> > > right to have
> > > say , or to air theie own visions of progress .
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > <2."Is there discrimination? How?"
> > > This is a question which i wish to address only
> in a
> > > restricted
> > > sense,in the context of the idea of "positive
> > > discrimination".You will
> > > agree, this is not a special coinage invented by
> > > me.To my
> > > understanding this just another expression to
> > > signify the provision
> > > for statutory reservation.I don't know whether
> there
> > > is essential
> > > distinction between these concepts of "positive
> > > discrimination" and
> > > "reservation",for that matter.THese are seen
> > > theoratically espoused by
> > > the US and the Indain sysytems of governance
> > > respectively ,purportedly
> > > for achieving social parity.
> > > Nevertheless ,there is one thing that
> immediately
> > > cathes our
> > > attention.While in the White dominated West a
> > > genuinely displayed and
> > > transparent commitment in letter and spirirt to
> such
> > > legislations is
> > > rather perceptible,the Brahmaical or
> > > quasi-Brahmanical Indian State
> > > is unfortunately unique in its equivocalism
> > > ,abuse,and disrespect
> > > toward its own constitution.As a result of this
> > > ,reservation has
> > > lately come to be viewed most skeptically. This
> in
> > > my opinion,is the
> > > real danger.Perhaps this brand new
> skepticism(shall
> > > we call it 'post
> > > modern' though it is hopelessly 'pre-modern' in
> > > substance?) albeit in
> > > differing degrees ,is shared by the elites of
> all
> > > castes.
> > > Hence, though for other contexts i will have no
> > > difficulty in
> > > answering this query ("Is there discrimination?
> > > "...in reservation)
> > > in the negetive ,the particular context wants me
> to
> > > emphatically say
> > > yes.
> > > Reservation, i believe, is a form of positive
> > > discriminatin;without
> > > constitutionally implementing this in most
> effective
> > > ways the casteist
> > > society as a whole,comprising all sections
> including
> > > the dalits may
> > > neither understand what social justice is about
> ,nor
> > > will it care for
> > > the less privilaged fellow humans.In this aspect
> i
> > > have no hesitation
> > > to suggest that the society as a whole
> ,including
> > > the UCs & BCs, men
> > > &women cutting across every other distinctive
> > > identity is more or less
> > > at ease with its Brahmanical mode;this is
> especially
> > > so ,thanks to the
> > > conspicuous absence of painstaking and
> enlightened
> > > efforts by the
> > > governing (constitutional) set up in
> re-orienting
> > > the priorities.
> > > Hence , I only wish to reiterate here the remedy
> > > proposed by
> > > Dr.Ambedkar for helping everybody to refine and
> > > strengthen :EDUCATE,AGITATE,ORGANIZE.
> > > In carrying these out to their truly devastating
> > > potentials, dalits
> > > will surely be both the insiders and outsiders
> at
> > > the same time.
> > >
> > >
> > > With regards ,
> > > K.M.Venu
> > >
> > > On Mar 22, 7:35 am, venukm
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Both agree and disagree with Ranju's points;
> Hope
> > > I may be able to
> > > > come back.
> > > > Venu.K.M
> > > >
> > > > On Mar 21, 12:24 pm, "Ranjit Ranjit"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
=== message truncated ===
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