On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:04 AM, Onno Meyer <[email protected]> wrote: > DataPacRat wrote: >> TL9, Exposed Radiators >> SM+8, unstreamlined: 1000 tons >> >> 1 3*1/3 Armor, Steel: $.18M > > Hello DataPacRat, > > the Spaceships rules allow unarmored hulls, but obviously > that doesn't mean DR 0 -- the smallest unit in Spaceships > is dDR 1 = DR 10. Besides, if you want a smaller armor > system in each hull section, you need a total of 3*9 > small systems.
This is mostly to be able to say that the ship has something to handle general wear, tear, and abrasion when dealing with micrometeoroids. One space worth of armor spread across front, centre, and back seems enough to do that much, yesno? >> 1/3 Small Control room: $.6M >> 1 Engine room: $.3M >> 1 Fuel tanks: $.3M >> Fuel, 50 tons nuclear fuel pellets: $2.5M >> 2 Habitat: 24 bunks, total life support: $1M > > Do you need that many people awake? Two sleepers for each > bunk with total life support. This is a detail still being hashed out in-universe - the characters in question aren't sure how many people they'll want to have awake during the trip (doing things like designing equipment, programming, networking with people back in Earth-orbital space, etc etc), and one space's worth (plus another space of life-support) safely covers their upper estimates. I'm not sure Spaceships is designed to take into account hot-bunking - the habitat also includes, eg, laundry facilities, bathrooms, and kitchen. (I'm not particularly worried about the space for life-support, since a 24-man system based on the algae/SCWO design for the 'taur prosthetic elsethread could fit into a mere hundred cf.) Still, this might or might not get cut down to 12 peoples' worth of bunks, but details are still undetailed. >> 1 Habitat: 1 Sickbay with automed, 5 workshops: $1.1M > > Engine room, workshops, and fabricator? How about a large > system fabricator instead? (Plus large power, of course.) I don't expect much significant fabbing will be done en-route; the workshops are mostly for other skills. Hm... it looks like the default Spaceships fabricator would take a thousand hours to self-replicate; but it requires pre-existing parts which would take 400 hours to make, which themselves would take 160 hours, which would take 64 hours, which would take 25.6 hours, etc, a sequence which seems to end up requiring a total of 1,583.33 hours - call it two months and change. Bringing a one-size-up factory could save four months in the colony's industrialization process... assuming that all the power and raw-material supports were also in place. >> 1 Hanger: $.1M > > A lot of coats, then ... sorry, pet peeve of mine. Do you have a better name? >> 1 Reaction Engine, Advanced Fusion Pulse: $20M >> 1 Weapon turret, Medium, 1 laser beam (and 30 tons cargo): $2M > > That could become a smaller system, major battery, if > you want to balance the smaller armor. I'm not particularly worried, since I'm just using SS's weapon description to represent the wakefield e-beam. >> Spin Gravity: $.1M >> Colony gear: >> 5 Cargo holds: 250 tons capacity >> 1 Factory: Fabricator: $50M >> 1 Habitat: 24 Hibernation chambers: $1M >> 2/3: Habitat: 16 Hibernation chambers: $.66M >> 1 Mining: $1M >> 1 Refinery: $1M >> 1 Power Plant, Fusion: $10M > > You cannot power the factory, mining and refinery at the same > time. More power, less cargo? Let's see - the fab is 1/20 the ship's total mass, or 50 tons, and takes two months to assemble. The mine digs up 50 tons in 10 hours, and the refinery processes it in 3.3 hours, which doesn't even add a single percent to the time taken. So, at least initially, it seems workable to only be able to run one at a time. >> Total cost for 1-way trip: $90.85M (plus cost of misc colonization gear) >> Delta-vee: 20 mps > > Call it $2M per person. Are people in New Attica that rich? Not on average - but the nakama in question is a typically un-average set of PCs. >> I'm currently toying with swapping spaces of cargo for more >> hibernation pods or more fuel - though 32 km/sec is several times >> what's needed to get to the asteroid belt. > > How about "full return capability"? Well, yes - that's included in "several times" the delta-vee to go one-way. To get from Earth to Ceres or Pallas only takes about 10 km/sec - or 16 km/sec if you want to cut down the time some. >> > just how large is the group that is going to leave? >> >> Somewhere between 20 and 180, depending on how many hibernation pods >> get installed. > > Wouldn't the number of colonists dictate the size of the ship? > Build large enough to take everybody. Again, this is a detail being hashed out in-setting. >> > Here in Germany, certain specialists on Frankfurt airport >> > went on strike for much higher wages. Just 200 out of 70,000, >> > but nothing goes without them, so they ask for money. What if >> > every single colony member has such a vital job? >> >> Hm... how about, "No, Dave, you don't /have/ to monitor the >> ice-melting if you don't want to. Of course, if you want to go that >> way, I don't /have/ to sell you any more kilojoules if /I/ don't want >> to. But thanks to the law of comparative advantage, we both benefit by >> doing what we do best - so isn't your like of having enough >> electricity to do stuff a lot bigger than your dislike of the boring >> job?" > > It is more like "There are five of you mining and refining > metals, and you efficiently created a couple hundred tons of > stockpiles. There is just one power tech, that's me, and the > batteries last only a day or two if I shut the reactor down. > So let's re-negotiate prices while you freeze in the dark." > > All those neat economic theories assume a functioning market. > What you get is monopolists and oligopolists negotiating with > each other (i.e. blackmailing each other for their individual > profit, unless that gets curbed somehow). Economics is also going to be skewed by the fact that the core group - the ones who are most likely to stay awake, and depending on events, might even be the only ones who end up aboard - are effectively a sort of family or clan, which throws a variety of monkey-wrenches into most contemporary descriptions of economic systems. >> > Or lawyers and business majors. As much as the geeks pretend to >> > loathe them, you need a couple of "suit and tie" types in any >> > major project, because "techies" tend to get bogged down in >> > technical questions and forget little things like budgets and >> > timetables (or documentation and maintainable software -- they >> > still remember what they wrote, and the deadline is near). >> > >> > The problem comes when the "suits" can override the "techies" >> > even on purely technical decisions ... >> >> Hm... the group does have a few aspects which might mitigate some of >> that - ie, coming from a society which kicked almost all the most >> parasitic suits onto the curb very recently - but there's still plenty >> of room here for "interesting times". > > Which could mean that they'll feel the lack of those suits. If > techies play project manager or human resources manager without > proper training, they'll become ineffective tinpot dictators, > to replace the effective ones. I'll keep that in mind for future plot complications. :) Thank you for your time, -- DataPacRat lu .iacu'i ma krinu lo du'u .ei mi krici la'e di'u li'u traji lo ka vajni fo lo preti _______________________________________________ GurpsNet-L mailing list <[email protected]> http://mail.sjgames.com/mailman/listinfo/gurpsnet-l
