Hi tony It is wonderful that you are introducing software like Window-Eyes to new people. When helping them out don't you think that bruise mode is pretty extreme? I'm glad not to be one of your students (smile).
Vic -----Original Message----- From: tony c [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 10:33 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: A bit of a rant (was Re: Observations with Window Eyes and Web Browsing) Hi, It is true! Technology is moving ultra fast. I have been a devoted win eyes user since 2003 and have recommended it to many people. I do really hope that we get the much needed update very soon. It gets pretty frustrating when you know that there is a certain link, mouse over, or other control and window eyes just misses it for what ever reason. I have also noticed that when -----Original Message----- filling out a form a lot of times you turn brooze mode back on to read the text for that box, or control. Tony From: Chris Hill Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 10:19 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: A bit of a rant (was Re: Observations with Window Eyes and Web Browsing) I'm sure there are a lot of things going on that we don't know about. The problem is when we see things like an interface rewrite being placed ahead of changes we need in order to continue to be able to browse the web effectively, with no explanation given as to why, we may begin to question our purchase decisions. In the last several years, we've gotten scripting and an interface rewrite. That's all fine and dandy, but I only make minor use of scripts and the interface worked as it was. Dynamic web pages were a problem before scripting, and they are still a problem now, I expect fixing some of those issues would have been of greater benefit. I was frankly shocked to find out from the results to a web use survey a while back that jfw was about six times more popular than window-eyes. I expect financial issues may be causing GW to fall behind, and I don't know how or if they can ever overcome them. On 6/13/2011 09:47, Kevin Huber wrote: > Hi: > I think that sometimes, when we get frustrated about GW Micro taking a > seemingly long time to implement features that they have promised, > (I.E. a fix for Browse Mode), we forget that nobody really knows what > goes on behind the scenes at GW Micro. We don't know how much > programming has to be done to implement the features that we want and > need, and how much testing needs to be done to make sure they function > properly. Those of us who have experience with programming, know that > writing a program and testing it and then debugging it can be a very > long process, especially if the task which the program is supposed to > perform is a complex one. So while we need to keep letting GW Micro > know what features are important to us in future versions of > Window-eyes, we need to be patient, no matter how difficult that might > be. > Kevin Huber > > On 6/13/11, David<[email protected]> wrote: >> Don't think that anyone here is talking about 'rushing' anything. Neither >> in >> this discussion, or the similar ones, that have been on the list for ever >> so >> long, when comes to the browse mode rewrite. >> >> There is a couple of things, that I am sure, we ALL will agree on. 1st, >> we >> don't want GW to rush anything out the door, before it is solidly ready. >> 2nd, we don't want to pay for any half-done job; and so appriciate the >> fact >> that several of the upgrades are being released as free-of-charge ones. >> 3rd, >> we still want, and need, well even should have our rights in expecting, >> that >> Window-Eyes will stay up-to-date, and being reliable. >> >> What I think many a user is wondering, is how come that the browse mode >> has >> not been updated, since it has been promised for a long time, and the >> need >> for an update is getting rather obvious for those of us who do more like >> 80-plus percent of our computing on the net these days. The question, I >> think, even becomes all the more obvious, due to the fact of GW telling >> us >> over and over again, how closely they are working with companies like >> Microsoft. OK, Microsoft is not liable for each and every one of the >> billions of web sites out there, neither are any screen reader >> manufacturer >> in full control of new html or the like standards. Yet, since the other >> manufacturers have managed to keep their web-utility updated, and hence >> to >> some extend outrange GW's product as per date, it is timely to ask what >> is >> so complicated that GW is not willing to let out the door any updates. >> They >> started, true enough, to talk about a rewrite back when WE7 was released. >> It >> being two or three years ago, still it has been a good amount of time, to >> do >> such a rewrite. Maybe they are working on it. We don't know, as they have >> been little willing to come out yet, with any information as to what the >> progress on the matter is. And, I guess, somehow that even gears up some >> of >> the frustration, of many a user; since it easily could tell a story about >> the GW staff not even looking at the matter. Yet, I am sure they are. >> Seems - based on some earlier comments from that corner - that they have >> had >> a challenge in knowing exactly how to handle certain parts of the matter. >> >> Even the most loyal user of WE, will have to agree, that few things in >> the >> computer world changes more rapidly, and frequently, than the internet. >> And >> many a user will agree, that browse mode is long time overdue. None of >> this >> conflicts with the fact, that we want a solid, fully working, stabil, >> well-tested and reliable product. It simply just means, that with a >> browse >> mode, that skips a third of the links, onclicks, buttons and so forth on >> web >> pages, we no longer can claim WE to be the most stabil and reliable >> product >> on the market. Be it as stabil as it wants, in Office 2010, Itunes, Vista >> or >> whatever - if it cannot read the webpages correctly and reliably, I do >> claim >> a screen reader is not much for a market leader these days. >> >> Now, of course, many users will pop in here, claiming they have no >> trouble >> in browsing the web. To all of those, let me express my heartfelt >> congratulations. Long as the screen reader does what you expect, and is >> reliable in its functionality, I really say you are lucky, and that is >> great. On the other hand, too many a message on this list, has denoted >> the >> fact, there is enough of examples of websites, that are totally - or at >> least close thereto - useless with Window-Eyes. Give you but one example, >> which a ton of people will be familiar with, and which was pointed out >> earlier in this thread. If you try to send money, for instance pay for an >> EBay winning, using Paypal. OK, the webpage itself might read kind of >> well >> enough. But if you tab through the page, hoping for a place where it says >> things like 'confirm payment', or 'pay now'; you soon will be >> disappointed. >> The correct place to hit your Enter-key, would be where it simply says >> 'button'. Poof! How are we to know, that 'button' means 'confirm >> payment', >> and not 'go and have a cup of chocolate'. (smiile) It would be easy >> enough >> to give a long line of examples of websites, that gives similar >> 'half-way' >> informations. Let's now add on all the websites that do not even read at >> all, or at least that brokenly that you would have been doing better >> never >> visiting that site. Go then ahead, talking about the fact of Window-Eyes >> hanging every ten time, you open a web page, causing whatever for a >> problem >> of the user you might experience. Well, go on with the list, and you will >> see, why a lot of people ask things to be fixed. We don't want it to be >> rushed, unstabil or untested; we want it to be FIXED - that is all. >> >> If there was no fix around, well by then, GW or whoever go ahead and tell >> us >> that it will be fixed in the future. Go on, sing that song, till our ears >> fall off, or till Eloquence knows the phrase well enough to studder it >> out >> everytime browse mode hangs on our computer. The reality though, is that >> there is some kind of fix around. And that is called: USE ANOTHER SCREEN >> READER FOR YOUR BROWSING SESSIONS... Surely, that is not what GW wants us >> to >> do, and I assure you, noone of the thousands of users around the globe >> wants >> to play-and-fool around with more than one screen reader at a time >> either. >> That is EXACTLY why its been stressed over and over again, the need for >> an >> update. And since other manufacturers have been able to solve the >> challenges - at least to some better degree than what GW can show up at >> the >> moment - I really think the users are in their right, of asking what is >> so >> complicated that GW cannot solve it at the moment. >> >> Oh yes, we have heard about the new html standard that is going to come >> around. Well, let me ask you guys: When Office 2007 came out, did GW sit >> down and tell their users that 'we will get Office support running, once >> Office 2010 is out'? Or, did they leave their customers behind, when >> Windows >> 7 was released, simply because Windows 8 is already on the engineers' >> slate? >> NO! In all these cases, GW proudly anounced to the public, that they were >> apparently the very first ones on the market, to have their users >> up-to-date, fully in line with the current development on the market. My >> point here is, why would we ever sit back and wait for some kind of new >> standard to pop out, before an update of the browse mode? When the new >> standard is released, there is simply just plans for a totally new >> version >> of the standard, that will keep the engineers employed. That is business, >> and it is reality. I really have a hard time, figuring when would be the >> perfect time to release the new browse mode. There simply never will be. >> But >> that doesn't say, that the users might be lacking, all the time you don't >> get anything out the door. Don't please, GW staff, jump in here, telling >> the >> good old story about the priorities. We know that one, and true some >> priorities might be important. It is - for one thing - good that you let >> out >> the version that supports Windows7, since it is really hard to find a new >> computer these days with anything but that OS. And, the person that is >> employed in a big company that has the bigg money to install the newest >> Office suite on all their computers; well that user is overly happy since >> you let out a version of WE, supporting Office 2010. Yet, how many a >> user, >> do you think, has the money to pop out buying the newest Office? >> Specially >> so, since they could import their old Office suite under the newer >> Windows. >> Now then, compare that number, with the thousands of users, that are >> using >> the Internet each day - many times each day - and are fully depending on >> that feature, so as to handle their day-today activities; or even make >> themselves a living or job. I don't need to much fantacy, let alone much >> for >> experience of life, to realize which number will be the highest. And, I >> don't have any trouble at all, in relating with the many users who are >> frustrated about an ever-ongoing broken browse mode. NO! It is not >> working. >> I have to close and reopen webpages several times an hour, just because >> Eloquence packs up his Window-Eyes suitcase, and goes for his many fancy >> cruises out there on cyberspace; leaving me at home, with an ice cream in >> my >> hand. Smile. And, don't tell me to use another voice like Dectalk please, >> as >> the non-US Window-Eyes I am forced to use, hasn't had such capabilities >> since version 7. Besides, I am about to claim that it is no matter of >> Eloquence, rather a matter of Window-Eyes itself. >> >> GW, what good is in a computer these days, if it cannot reliably go on >> the >> internet. Which job, even in the biggest companies, will be all that >> solely >> relying on support for the newest and fanciest version of Office or >> whatever, that such things should down-prioritize the need for internet >> support? Stabile internet support. Reliable internet support. Correct >> internet support. >> >> If GW really wants to keep their position as the market leader of the >> screen >> reader comunity, and if they want to stand behind their frequently >> declaring >> Window-Eyes to be the most 'rock solid' reader on the market - well in >> such >> a case, they HAVE TO get browse mode fixed. OK, at the moment, people can >> somehow live with it. At the moment, people will find Window-Eyes stabil >> and >> reliable enough on all other matters. At the moment, people will still >> sit >> back patiently listen to the old song of the bird, twittering about >> Version >> 8. At the moment! But how long does a moment last? How long will it take, >> before Window-Eyes is no longer the most rock-solid screen reader around? >> How long will it take, before the users rather will deal with some buggy >> stuff from the competitors, since they at least will get their hands on >> the >> web information with other products? And, How long will it take before >> the >> competitors have straightened out their bugs; with GW not even having out >> a >> Beta of their new version? How many users can just sit down waiting for >> promises? You cannot have your new job, simply based on promises. You >> cannot >> do your bill payment in the bank, based on promises. You cannot hand in >> your >> school examine just based on promises. See how many phone companies, >> would >> let me have my phone running, if I told them there will be money paid, >> when >> Window-Eyes 8 is out - sometime down the road. Or, which employer would >> let >> you have the job, if he had to feed you sandwiches from now on, till WE8 >> is >> out, just to make you busy with something? Yes, some of this is >> exergerated >> a bit, to stress the point. But most of it, is the real matter of fact. >> >> As for the WE7.5, I cannot speak too much - since I am forced to use a >> non-US version of WE7.2, and there still is no update around for that >> one. >> Yet another thing GW will have to stress a bit, if they want to keep the >> market lead. It surprises me, that it takes several months to translate >> an >> update of WE. Honestly, there is not all that much for a difference, or >> all >> that many phrases to translate. Still, from what I read on the list here, >> I >> have a bit of trouble, when some people say they'd rather have a new >> version >> when it is ready. Seems there is a good deal of bugs, and I guess there >> always will be. Yet, I do still wonder, what in version 7.5 will be worth >> my >> money, once it has been translated and released locally. I really have >> seen >> little information that would convince me, to spend all that money. What >> would get my wallet moving though, would be the day when a reliable fix >> is >> out for the browse mode. A fix that would save me frustration, and a ton >> of >> time, in having to close, refind, reopen, hope-for-the-best when trying >> to >> lookup information or doing other activities on the net. >> >> >> no no no, don't rush it until it is ready. Simply just get it ready. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tyler Juranek"<[email protected]> >> To: "Chris Hill"<[email protected]>; "gwmicro"<[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 5:28 AM >> Subject: Re: A bit of a rant (was Re: Observations with Window Eyes and >> Web >> Browsing) >> >> >>> Hi, >>> I'm sure GW is working hard. >>> Trust me, they want to do it right, so let them do it right. >>> I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a version of window-eyes >>> that works reliably on the web, then a piece of junk that GW just goes >>> rush rush rush and releases. >>> That's my opinion on this thread. >>> Take Care. >>> >>> On 6/12/11, Chris Hill<[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Yes, but at least voiceover generally works, even on my puny iphone >>>> 3gs. >>>> Delete even speaks every character I delete, unlike window-eyes and >>>> office 2007. I can find pages that work on my iphone better than on >>>> window-eyes, and getting the job done is what this is about. Frankly, >>>> the previous release was like the guy who drops his keys in the grass >>>> in >>>> the dark and goes looking for them in the street under a street light >>>> because he can't see in the dark. I don't know who gw was trying to >>>> impress, maybe they had a possible big customer who didn't like the way >>>> it looked, but I sure would have rather received improvements on the >>>> web >>>> where I'm spending more and more of my computer time. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 6/12/2011 22:47, Juan Gonzalez wrote: >>>>> I know that I will regret this, but you need to stop and think about >>>>> what you are saying. lets take apple as an example. there voice over >>>>> only provides speech for one browser. you have no choices. GW and >>>>> other >>>>> windows screen readers are trying to give you choices so your not >>>>> stuck >>>>> with one browser. Now apple only having to work with one browser still >>>>> has problems. now try to support two browsers and try to add more on >>>>> the >>>>> list. we should be glad that GW and other screen readers have given us >>>>> choices. GW is working hard to gives something that will work instead >>>>> of >>>>> putting something that can support it and not work correctly. do you >>>>> want to use up all your free upgrades and then have them charge for >>>>> the >>>>> real fix? I rather them come out with fixes and be free upgrades but >>>>> that is a different story. Just give them time and let them do it >>>>> right. >>>>> >>>>> Juan Gonzalez >>>>> Need training at an affordable price? >>>>> Visit www.BlindAccessTraining.com<http://www.BlindAccessTraining.com> >>>>> to learn how to use Window-eyes, JAWS, and NVDA. >>>>> You can also learn how to make your own web site when you click on the >>>>> web design link. >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Jacob Schmude<mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 12, 2011 6:35 PM >>>>> *To:* [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: A bit of a rant (was Re: Observations with Window Eyes >>>>> and Web Browsing) >>>>> >>>>> And why bother with that when other products just work? Again, what >>>>> about pages where no alternative exists? I'm not necessarily intending >>>>> to raise problems with specific web sites, but merely to provide >>>>> examples. A lot of pages that have no alternative are internal or else >>>>> private (bank web pages for example) so I can't exactly give them as >>>>> examples. You can suggest all the alternatives you'd like, but when I >>>>> hit a page that doesn't have one, I'm still left with the bug and no >>>>> workaround where window-eyes is concerned. >>>>> Still, I'm glad one of my objectives has been achieved: to spark a >>>>> large >>>>> discussion out in the open where it is much harder to ignore. Support >>>>> requests and bug reports can be filed away, but it's more difficult to >>>>> do that with list discussions as, even if the discussion is removed >>>>> from >>>>> the archives, those who participate will remember and know that it was >>>>> deleted. I have a certain amount of loyalty to GW Micro, if I didn't >>>>> I'd >>>>> just ignore Window-Eyes' deficiencies and leave it at that. Sometimes, >>>>> things must be dragged out no matter how unpleasant, and I think this >>>>> is >>>>> long past due. The web is important, more so today than ever before, >>>>> and >>>>> if we as blind people expect to keep up then we need to make sure the >>>>> products on which we rely are able to do so with us. I am not willing >>>>> to >>>>> be relegated to the 90's where we needed text-only web pages because >>>>> our >>>>> screen readers couldn't keep up. I've been there before, and I'm not >>>>> going back. >>>>> >>>>> On 6/12/2011 20:25, Juan Gonzalez wrote: >>>>>> as far as youtube is concerned there is an accessible version and you >>>>>> can find the link at blindaccesstraining.com under the helpful >>>>>> resources >>>>>> >>>>>> Juan Gonzalez >>>>>> Need training at an affordable price? >>>>>> Visit www.BlindAccessTraining.com<http://www.BlindAccessTraining.com> >>>>>> to learn how to use Window-eyes, JAWS, and NVDA. >>>>>> You can also learn how to make your own web site when you click on >>>>>> the >>>>>> web design link. >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Jacob Schmude<mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 12, 2011 6:21 PM >>>>>> *To:* [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: A bit of a rant (was Re: Observations with Window Eyes >>>>>> and Web Browsing) >>>>>> >>>>>> Doublas, >>>>>> Do you really think I haven't tried all of that? The mouse keys don't >>>>>> work for those links, not in Firefox. They do in IE, but that >>>>>> particular problem has only ever appeared in Firefox. Google was an >>>>>> *example*. Yes, you can use labs.google.com, but what am I supposed >>>>>> to >>>>>> do on Youtube? On Paypal? Wikipedia or other Wikis? How about >>>>>> specialized pages that I have to work with that have no alternative? >>>>>> I >>>>>> don't have the time to go looking for workarounds anymore. It would >>>>>> be >>>>>> one thing if these were general workarounds that all screen reader >>>>>> users needed to do, but they're not, and when the choice is find a >>>>>> workaround for almost everything I need to do or switch screen >>>>>> readers, it's not much of a choice. I have used window-eyes for >>>>>> nearly >>>>>> 10 years, so please give me credit that I've tried the obvious... >>>>>> over >>>>>> and over again. I like a lot about Window-Eyes, but in the past few >>>>>> versions, the bugs have just become more of a problem than the >>>>>> features can offset. I'll take a few less bling and a bit more work, >>>>>> thanks. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 6/12/2011 18:12, douglas rudolph wrote: >>>>>>> hey man, uhhh, i really don't know where to start. you don't know >>>>>>> how >>>>>>> to work around these issues obviously, very simple fixes i might >>>>>>> add.. your google problem use >>>>>>> labs.google.com/accible, or google.com/custom, and your links that >>>>>>> dont' show as links such as on facebook with the status, link, >>>>>>> photo, >>>>>>> video, etc, use your mouse simulation keys... easy fix >>>>>>> .This email may contain personal identifyable information. Copy, >>>>>>> relay, redistributions, and or reading of these emails is strictly >>>>>>> prohibited, unless you are the intended recipiant of this email, and >>>>>>> this intended recipiant only. If this is not the intended recipiant, >>>>>>> then you are requested to delete this message immediately and notify >>>>>>> sender. >>>>>>> Douglas Rudolph >>>>>>> Tel: 1306-565-2056 >>>>>>> Cell: 1306-209-2823 >>>>>>> Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> *From:* Jacob Schmude<mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> *To:* [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 12, 2011 7:03 PM >>>>>>> *Subject:* A bit of a rant (was Re: Observations with Window >>>>>>> Eyes >>>>>>> and Web Browsing) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi >>>>>>> ** Warning: Begin a sort of rant ** >>>>>>> Unfortunately, the Firefox issues have been in Window-Eyes for >>>>>>> years. Essentially, dynamic content causes the entire page to >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> refreshed. Google's edit field causes the page to change as you >>>>>>> type in order for it to suggest search results, and this >>>>>>> triggers >>>>>>> window-eyes' page reload behavior. We have been promised a fix >>>>>>> for this for years and have never gotten it and, while I don't >>>>>>> know about anyone else, I'm losing my patience with window-eyes >>>>>>> on the web with Firefox in particular, but with IE as well. >>>>>>> Window-Eyes' support for Firefox is a joke. Standard elements >>>>>>> such as onclicks are not identified (most other screen readers >>>>>>> call these clickables), image links are not identified as >>>>>>> links, >>>>>>> reviewing edited text doesn't work, the auto completion and >>>>>>> history list in the address bar do not work properly (they >>>>>>> briefly flash in Braille but never speak), flash within Firefox >>>>>>> is not accessible, mouseOvers and other dynamic content do not >>>>>>> update the buffer or when they do you are thrown to the top, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> I could go on. These are things we've been promised fixes for, >>>>>>> and what do we get? New whiz-bang features with old bugs. >>>>>>> Internet Explorer 9 is not much better (GW, did you even test >>>>>>> IE9 >>>>>>> at all?). Dynamic pages with hidden elements are not properly >>>>>>> rendered (the hidden elements are shown when they should not >>>>>>> be, >>>>>>> have a look at Gmail or Google Voice's pages for that one), >>>>>>> There >>>>>>> are random headings and lists with 0 items inserted everywhere >>>>>>> while real headings are not identified (blindbargains.com for >>>>>>> that last), entering text in forms somehow fails to allow all >>>>>>> typed characters through (I'm a fast typist). Each and every >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> of these problems I've listed, the free screen reader NVDA has >>>>>>> overcome (most of these it never exhibited at all). Jaws, that >>>>>>> other screen reader, isn't far behind and Baum's Cobra doesn't >>>>>>> have these troubles either. Quite frankly, given the importance >>>>>>> of the internet, this is unacceptable and, as a Window-Eyes >>>>>>> customer for years, I feel more than a little cheated. To GW: >>>>>>> Don't follow FS down the path of release release release but >>>>>>> don't fix. I don't care if it takes two years for a new >>>>>>> version, >>>>>>> as long as that new version of Window-Eyes works to the best of >>>>>>> your abilities. This is not the best and, if you're going to >>>>>>> brag >>>>>>> about your IE9 support, you'd better make blasted sure it works >>>>>>> as advertised. The 7.5 release only had one beta cycle. One. >>>>>>> Let's look at this honestly for a second, no marketing, no pr. >>>>>>> What does 7.5 offer over 7.2 that is worth paying $175 for? A >>>>>>> new >>>>>>> set file format? Not worth that much. A few new scripting >>>>>>> functions? Again, not worth that. Cascading settings (a nice >>>>>>> feature and long overdue, but worth $175?). A rename of scripts >>>>>>> to app (boy, that must've taken a lot of effort there). >>>>>>> Meanwhile, long standing bugs go unfixed, and the web is just >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> area. I could go on but, these days, I'm not sure that GW Micro >>>>>>> really care. I can't tell off the top of my head exactly how >>>>>>> much >>>>>>> I've put into window-eyes over the years since I've owned it, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> I'm now using NVDA instead because it's less buggy and actually >>>>>>> allows me to get real work done. That's just not acceptable QA >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> my book, and I can't in good conscience put my hard-earned cash >>>>>>> behind a product with this many problems. I apologize for the >>>>>>> harshness, but I've reported many of these within the past >>>>>>> several years and have never seen one fix. Perhaps a little >>>>>>> harshness will get my point across a bit better. I leave that >>>>>>> up >>>>>>> to you, GW Micro. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ** end rant ** >>>>>>> I've never seen the IE8 hanging issue but I'm well familiar >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> the rest of the problems you're having. You're not alone. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 6/12/2011 14:58, Cory Martin wrote: >>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>> Just wanted to report a couple of issues that I've noticed >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> Window Eyes with web browsing: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With Internet Explorer version 8: >>>>>>>> Firstly there seem to be issues with Google, specifically >>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>> doing a search, for some reason browse mode doesn't come back >>>>>>>> on. It can be enabled with the usual command, however it's the >>>>>>>> only site which doesn't seem to bring browse mode back on >>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>> entering a search string. >>>>>>>> More difficult to identify however is a strange issue which >>>>>>>> seems to affect Internet Explorer where when the browser is >>>>>>>> first opened it just hangs, yet opening a second instance of >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> may work just fine. I've tried resetting it in the advanced >>>>>>>> tab >>>>>>>> under internet options, as well as using C-Cleaner to remove >>>>>>>> extra files, as well as clearing personal data. The issue >>>>>>>> persists, yet with other screen readers it doesn't seem to >>>>>>>> happen. This does not seem to be a problem with Firefox. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With Mozilla Firefox latest version: >>>>>>>> I switched to Firefox full time after having the unsolvable >>>>>>>> hanging problem with Internet Explorer. However with Firefox, >>>>>>>> there seems to be issues with staying in forms for entering >>>>>>>> text. For example if I'm trying to enter a word in to Google >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> keeps dropping me back in to browse mode every time I press >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> space bar. I've had to use notepad to type out my search >>>>>>>> string >>>>>>>> and then paste it in to the browser. I'm not sure which is >>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>> annoying. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With either browser: >>>>>>>> When trying to arrow arrow around in edit boxes on web pages >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> both Internet Explorer or Firefox, Window Eyes just makes a >>>>>>>> ding >>>>>>>> sound when trying to review text entered. It is necessary to >>>>>>>> drop back in to browse mode to review what's been entered and >>>>>>>> then re-enter the edit box and re-position the cursor to where >>>>>>>> one wants to correct something based on best guess, or by >>>>>>>> cutting the text to notepad and editing it there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Does anyone have any experience with these problems to either >>>>>>>> confirm or deny them? Also and more importantly, does anyone >>>>>>>> know of work-arounds to these issues? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Cory >>>>>>>> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the >>>>>>>> original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please >>>>>>>> consider sending your message to [email protected] so the >>>>>>>> entire list will receive it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> GW-Info messages are archived at >>>>>>>> http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. >>>>>>>> You can manage your list subscription at >>>>>>>> http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. >>>>>>>> >>>> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original >>>> sender >>>> only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message >>>> is >>>> related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to >>>> [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. >>>> >>>> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can >>>> manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Check out the Techy Tidbits website, a whole new technology ride! at >>> http://www.techytidbits.info:/ >>> Listen to the brand new Techy Tidbits Radio! at >>> http://radio.techytidbits.info/ >>> Find out about the email lists run by techy tidbits by visiting >>> http://techytidbits.info/mailman/listinfo/ >>> Listen to the Techy Tidbit reviews on Main Menu on A C B radio at >>> http://mainmenu.acbradio.org >>> Call the Techy Tidbits comment line and leave us your feedback at >>> 206-337-4505! >>> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender >>> only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is >>> related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to >>> [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. >>> >>> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can >>> manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. >>> >> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender >> only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is >> related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to >> [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. >> >> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can >> manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. >> >> > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender > only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is > related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to > [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. > > GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can > manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. > > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
