Hi all,
I had to have my syncbraille repaired.
It wasn't under warranty, so I knew I'd have to pay $45 plus the cost of
parts. I understood that I would recieve a call before repairs were made
so
I would know the cost ahead of time and could make a decision as to
whether
or not I'd have the repairs done.
This did not happen. I would have paid for them anyway, but I personally
feel that gw should not make any repair without contacting the customer
first.
What if the customer decided the cost beyond the $45 was just too much?
I use my syncbraille all the time so had no problem paying the repair but
I
didn't like the fact that I was not told, your repair will cost xxx do
you
want to pay this?
I believe that should be changed so that you receive notice of repair
costs
and can ok them ahead of time.
As I said, I had no problem paying the amount, but I believe things
should
be done differently.
Have a blessed day,
Stacey Robinson and GEB dog Chesley
Eagleville, Tennessee.
[email protected]
----- Original Message -----
From: "sunshine" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [GWN] frustrations about the Sense products
> I'd like to know what's covered under the one-year warranty with the
> BSP.
> I sent my notetaker in because the dot 2 didn't know. I had to pay for
> the
> replacement part. Secondly, they replaced the battery latch as it was
> loose and one of the feet on the bottom. I'm perplexed because I've
> only
> inserted the battery into the unit, and it wasn't my fault the dot 2
> didn't work. The unit remained in the case from day one, so how could a
> foot be broken! So, even with the warranty, I have to pay $60.00 and
> wasn't told until after the unit was repaired! I'm paying it. I don't
> know
> what the warranty does for us?
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alex Hall <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Friday, May 14, 2010 15:51:10
> Subject: Re: [GWN] frustrations about the Sense products
>
>ar
>ar
>ar I agree with most of what was said, especially that companies should
>ar be a lot more vocal about just what their products cannot do. When
>ar Humanware says the Braillenote can access wireless email, it is worth
>ar noting that it is a lot slower than even a similarly powered print
>ar PDA, that some network encryption is not supported, that, especially
>ar on the mPower, the email database tends to corrupt itself and you can
>ar lose all your email (it happened to me six times, and I now rely on
>ar GMail)... When GWM says their wordprocessor allows you to edit
>ar documents, they should come out and say that Word 2007 and later is
>ar not supported (I realize this will be fixed in the next version, but
>ar you get my point). These companies should make it clear that flash is
>ar not supported, and likely never will be, and should explain just what
>ar that means for the end user. I realize no one wants to read about
>what
>ar a product cannot do, but I think it is all too common to find
>ar literature about a product explaining all of its wonderful features
>ar without mentioning, even in small print, the drawbacks; those
>ar drawbacks could very well be the deciding factor as to whether a user
>ar buys a product or not, and, at these prices, the user should know
>ar everything they can without having to try to locate a user group and
>ar ask, "So I read all th... but what is the company not telling me?"
>ar
>ar Someone said the bn has updated with the times. I have to very
>ar strongly disagree. It is true that the Apex came out recently, while
>ar the BSP is the latest notetaker (not counting the forthcoming VSQGGF
>ar GWM. However, the BSP and Apex are well matched in features. Except
>ar for the price and physical size, they are very similar - it just took
>ar hw longer to catch up. The Sense family still has MSN support (much
>ar more used than GoogleTalk or Jabber) as well as having multi-tasking,
>ar something HW has made no mention of.
>ar
>ar On 5/14/10, Colleen Roth <[email protected]> wrote:
>ar > Hi All,
>ar > I personally am very pleased with my Braille Sense Classic and
>Braille
>ar > Sense
>ar > Plus.
>ar > They do what I need them to do for me.
>ar > They do not require me to know a lot of things I would have to know
>if
>ar > I
>ar > used a Laptop or Netboook.
>ar > I for one would stop using email or the Internet if this was not
>ar > available
>ar > to me.
>ar > I have also used the Braille Note.
>ar > I can say that I have been very pleased with Gw Micro's Tech
>Support
>ar > and
>ar > answers on this list.
>ar > I would rather have a-pany do a good job with updates and have them
>ar > less
>ar > often.
>ar > If you are not pleased with your Braille Sense I suggest you check
>into
>ar > the
>ar > other products out there.
>ar > I am not saying it is perfect, I am saying that it is the best
>product
>ar > on
>ar > the Market in my opinion.
>ar > I did not like Keysoft and am glad for my Bs and BS PLUS.
>ar > Thanks Gw Micro and Hims.
>ar >
>ar > Colleen Roth
>ar >
>ar >
>ar >
>ar >
>ar > ----- Original Message -----
>ar > From: "Edwards, Paul" <[email protected]>
>ar > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
>ar > Date: 2010/05/14 19:32:06
>ar > Subject: RE: [GWN] FRUSTRATIONS ABOUT THE Sense products
>ar >
>ar >ar
>ar >ar
>ar >ar I think it is important to acquire some perspective on this
>issue. I
>ar >do
>ar >ar not currently own a gps system and will therefore disqualify
>myself
>ar >from
>ar >ar that issue as uninformed. I have had and used a gps system with
>ar >braille
>ar >ar note products but that was several years ago also.
>ar >ar
>ar >ar I think there is room for blind people to be dissatisfied with
>ar >product
>ar >ar updating. However, I think that the dissatisfaction ought to
>apply
>ar >across
>ar >ar the board. I think it is worth noting that the sense products
>have
>ar >yet to
>ar >ar charge for upgrades. The Humanware folks certainly do charge for
>the
>ar >ar braille note family. I was disheartened to see that the
>introduction
>ar >of
>ar >ar the Apex did not seem to include many changes to the programs
>that
>ar >were
>ar >ar run. Sure, there is more memory and built-in wireless and blue
>ar >tooth.
>ar >ar But I think a lot of us thought that this major upgrade and its
>ar >attendant
>ar >ar price tag would have also included more changes.
>ar >ar
>ar >ar It is my belief that product developers have an obligation to
>update
>ar >ar frequently if that is necessary to maintain functionality and
>ar >ar competitiveness. I think there are some major issues in this
>area
>ar >that
>ar >ar the sense products have allowed themselves to fall behind the
>cure
>ar >on.
>ar >ar Shakespeare said that comparisons are odious and I have sympathy
>ar >with
>ar >ar that concept. Those who make and sell the Sense note takers have
>ar >made a
>ar >ar choice as to whether they were going to charge for upgrades.
>ar >Regardless
>ar >ar of the economics of that decision, I think there is no excuse for
>a
>ar >ar failure, by now, to support word 2007 files. I also do believe
>that
>ar >the
>ar >ar internet has changed enough over the past few years and the Sense
>ar >products
>ar >ar and the humanware note takers and perhaps even the Freedom
>Scientific
>ar >not
>ar >ar taker have all failed either to come up with solutions that make
>the
>ar >web
>ar >ar more accessible or to say up front that such access has serious
>ar >ar limitations.
>ar >ar
>ar >ar I absolutely concur with whoever said that mainstream products
>must
>ar >be
>ar >ar updated to be saleable and so they are changed whenever there is
>a
>ar >need.
>ar >ar I do not think that blindness products as a group perceive that
>they
>ar >have
>ar >ar the same level of obligation to those who have chosen their
>products.
>ar >I
>ar >ar think that it is a generalized disdain for blind owners expressed
>ar >through
>ar >ar a failure to change enough with the times that we need to
>deplore.
>ar >ar
>ar >ar I find myself wondering also if we are operating during a time of
>ar >ar transition where the relatively inexpensive net book and lap top
>are
>ar >ar making inroads into the viability of note takers. Could we be
>ar >approaching
>ar >ar a threshold below which change will not happen. Some of us lived
>ar >through
>ar >ar the decline and fall of the braille lite millennium and know only
>too
>ar >well
>ar >ar that, after a very short life, Freedom Scientific stopped
>upgrading
>ar >the
>ar >ar device. I own a millennium, a braille plus, and a voice sense
>and
>ar >have
>ar >ar owned braille notes as well. I think what frustrates all of us
>who
>ar >use
>ar >ar these devices is the fact that, if truth be told, none of these
>ar >devices is
>ar >ar as transparent to the internet or to email as computers are.
>Perhaps
>ar >this
>ar >ar is the price we have to pay for a braille display or a braille
>ar >keyboard
>ar >ar Perhaps, however, we have reached the point where we need to say
>ar >that,
>ar >ar given the fact that we could buy ten net books for every braille
>ar >sense we
>ar >ar might consider buying, we, or someone, is not getting enough
>return
>ar >on the
>ar >ar investment. In general, I hold the following truths to be
>ar >self-evident
>ar >ar and relevant.
>ar >ar We have a right not to be disadvantaged by products that we have
>paid
>ar >a
>ar >ar high premium for and such products need to be updated regularly,
>ar >whether
>ar >ar we are charged for those upgrades or not. Blind owners of
>technology
>ar >ar ought to have the same right to expect that their products can be
>ar >used
>ar >ar where they are designed to be used as do people without
>disabilities
>ar >who
>ar >ar purchase products that do the same tasks. Perhaps most important
>of
>ar >all
>ar >ar is my belief that vendors have an obligation to discuss the
>ar >limitations of
>ar >ar their products. Given the quantity of flash and java-enabled
>stuff
>ar >on the
>ar >ar net, for instance, I think that folks ought to know about the
>ar >limitations
>ar >ar of the note takers in terms of accessing sites that make
>widespread
>ar >use of
>ar >ar either of these technologies.
>ar >ar
>ar >ar It does not matter to me who paid for the products we own. I
>paid
>ar >for all
>ar >ar of mine myself with no support from my employer or the vr system.
>We
>ar >are
>ar >ar the end users of the technology and must be able to rely on it to
>do
>ar >what
>ar >ar we bought it to do. Somebody paid a lot of money for the access
>tech
>ar >ar products we have. Is it reasonable that we are on a declining
>spiral
>ar >of
>ar >ar usability as the net changes and our products do not? I
>understand
>ar >and,
>ar >ar to some degree, accept the argument about a small market.
>However,
>ar >we pay
>ar >ar a high price for these products which should take care of the
>ar >disincentive
>ar >ar to update. In some cases, we also pay for maintenance agreements
>for
>ar >ar which we sometimes get very little in return. I am not sure we
>are
>ar >yet at
>ar >ar the stage of "broadcast News" but I think that there is less and
>less
>ar >ar being done for these devices so they are all, to a greater or
>lesser
>ar >ar extent, causing us to be further and further behind our
>non-disabled
>ar >ar peers.
>ar >ar
>ar >ar I would argue that GW Micro tries hard to apply the principles I
>am
>ar >ar espousing with their screen reader. Are we at the stage where not
>ar >taker
>ar >ar for the blind manufacturers are more concerned about keeping up
>with
>ar >the
>ar >ar competition than they are in making sure their products do what
>they
>ar >are
>ar >ar supposed to do? Is that competition asking that each product do a
>ar >bunch of
>ar >ar things because other products do a bunch of things? Are we at the
>ar >stage
>ar >ar where we as consumers and access technology producers must work
>to
>ar >develop
>ar >ar a new paradigm to measure both the viability of products and what
>ar >ar consumers really need and want?
>ar >ar
>ar >ar Paul
>ar >ar
>ar >ar -----Original Message-----
>ar >ar From: Bryan Duarte [mailto:[email protected]]
>ar >ar Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 2:04 PM
>ar >ar To: [email protected]
>ar >ar Subject: RE: [GWN] FRUSTRATIONS ABOUT THE Sense products
>ar >ar
>ar >ar Raul,
>ar >ar I live in Phoenix Arizona. there are several things I have
>attempted
>ar >to
>ar >ar search for using my sense nav and the results returned to me were
>ar >either,
>ar >ar incorrect, could not be found, or gave directions that were
>ar >inaccurate.
>ar >ar now
>ar >ar if we are only talking about streets, cities, and states over
>all,
>ar >the
>ar >ar Sense
>ar >ar Nav is great. the streets in phoenix never change. what changes
>is
>ar >the
>ar >ar businesses, locations, and information. staying up to date with
>all
>ar >this
>ar >ar information when it is ever changing would be impossible if maps
>were
>ar >ar updated every year, but to let it go out three plus years would
>be
>ar >ar virtually
>ar >ar ridiculous to expect any kind of accurate information. let me
>ar >explain... I
>ar >ar searched for a restaurant that I knew was on a particular corner
>just
>ar >did
>ar >ar not know the phone number. I searched using the search by name,
>then
>ar >ar category, then by setting my virtual position to that corner and
>ar >doing a
>ar >ar look around. still no results were returned for the restaurant.
>after
>ar >I
>ar >ar thought about it the POI I was looking for was only there for
>about
>ar >two
>ar >ar years or so. as I looked for other businesses such as a local
>gym,
>ar >gas
>ar >ar station, and restaurant about half of the searches were not
>easily
>ar >found,
>ar >ar were not found, or the information given was not correct. the
>only
>ar >reason
>ar >ar I
>ar >ar do not use the sense nav currently is because at this point the
>maps
>ar >on
>ar >ar the
>ar >ar sense nav are to far behind for Phoenix and its metro areas ever
>ar >changing
>ar >ar and growing communities. I do not expect for a GPS SYSTEM FOR
>SIGHTED
>ar >OR
>ar >ar blind to be 100 percent accurate, but what I do expect is for a
>ar >product
>ar >ar such
>ar >ar as a GPS SYSTEM TO STAY AS CURRENT AS POSSIBLE. Sendero is a very
>big
>ar >name
>ar >ar in GPS FOR THE BLIND, THEY HAVE A GREAT SYSTEM, AND ALWAYS HAVE
>UP TO
>ar >DATE
>ar >ar maps for their devices. my only question is what has taken so
>long
>ar >for the
>ar >ar Sense nav? when the voice sense and the Braille sense came out
>the
>ar >talk
>ar >ar was
>ar >ar that these products were top of the line, were small, powerful,
>and
>ar >had
>ar >ar lots
>ar >ar of promises in store for the future. well three years later,
>there
>ar >are
>ar >ar little to no major upgrades on OS, THE Daisy player still has no
>ar >support
>ar >ar for
>ar >ar RFB AND D, NLS AUDIO BOOKS, AND STILL NO UPDATES FOR PROGRAMS
>RUNNING
>ar >ON
>ar >ar THE
>ar >ar voice sense. the Braille note is evolving every year and changing
>ar >with the
>ar >ar times while the sense products seem to be three years back. I
>guess
>ar >it is
>ar >ar just frustrating because I bought a voice sense because the size,
>ar >power,
>ar >ar and
>ar >ar possibilities. three years later I am starting to feel let down,
>and
>ar >that
>ar >ar maybe I made the wrong decision.
>ar >ar Raul I know you are very passionate about the products you have
>and I
>ar >know
>ar >ar you always try to help everyone with them, my only problem is
>that
>ar >all of
>ar >ar the sense users bought a device that they hoped was going to
>shine
>ar >when
>ar >ar they
>ar >ar bought it and continue to shine through the years to come. we are
>not
>ar >so
>ar >ar bright these days. please take these things I say as a frustrated
>ar >customer
>ar >ar who would like to voice their opinion somewhere that it might be
>ar >heard and
>ar >ar taken into consideration. this is in no way a direct slander
>towards
>ar >GW
>ar >ar Micro, Sendero, or Hims.
>ar >ar
>ar >ar Bryan Duarte Blind Ambitions
>ar >ar
>ar >ar
>ar >ar -----Original Message-----
>ar >ar From: Raul A. Gallegos [mailto:[email protected]]
>ar >ar Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:53 PM
>ar >ar To: [email protected]
>ar >ar Subject: [GWN] FRUSTRATIONS ABOUT THE Sense products
>ar >ar
>ar >ar Bryan, I'm curious, where you live, have the maps changed that
>much
>ar >from
>ar >ar 2007 to 2010 that it makes your current SenseNav unusable like
>you
>ar >say?
>ar >ar Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing what you say and I'm not
>trying
>ar >to
>ar >ar come off like what you say isn't important. However in testing
>the
>ar >2010
>ar >ar maps and comparing them to the various cities I've traveled to or
>ar >ar checked out in virtual mode, not much has changed other than some
>ar >ar updated names for major roads. What has changed a lot is the POI
>ar >DATA.
>ar >ar
>ar >ar Regarding the SyncBraille, if it's out of warranty, with any
>hardware
>ar >ar product, a standard $45 analysis charge is always charged. So we
>are
>ar >not
>ar >ar singling you out here with it. Regarding the firmware, I have
>ar >personally
>ar >ar been pushing for new updates for a long time. Whether you believe
>me
>ar >or
>ar >ar not is up to you, but I think that anyone who knows me will
>believe
>ar >that
>ar >ar I feel strongly that the Sense notetakers are very good and they
>need
>ar >to
>ar >ar stay up-to-date. If I had the rights and resources, I would have
>ar >updated
>ar >ar them myself.
>ar >ar
>ar >ar Many thanks.
>ar >ar
>ar >ar On 5/13/2010 11:05 AM, Bryan Duarte wrote:
>ar >ar > I am with you on this issue sir. I bought a voice sense, sync
>ar >Braille,
>ar >ar > and the sense nave right when they were released. now I have
>had a
>ar >voice
>ar >ar > sense with no promised up grades, a sync Braille that no longer
>ar >works
>ar >ar > and to get it fixed they want to charge me 45 dollars a half
>hour
>ar >to
>ar >ar > diagnose the problem then parts and labor is separate, and a
>sense
>ar >nav
>ar >ar > that has maps from who knows how long ago with no information
>on
>ar >when
>ar >ar > and how much a new upgrade will cost. don't get me wrong I love
>my
>ar >voice
>ar >ar > sense and the sync Braille when it worked was great. the sense
>nav
>ar >was
>ar >ar > awesome when the map was accurate but now that times have moved
>on
>ar >and
>ar >ar > the technology has not things are looking down on the
>distributors
>ar >and
>ar >ar > manufacturers. to me making new products when the old products
>you
>ar >ar > currently have are not being maintained is a little backwards I
>ar >think. I
>ar >ar > use to use my voice sense a lot more when it was an all in one
>ar >device
>ar >ar > that was up to date on all systems. now that I have a firm ware
>ar >that
>ar >ar > could not even pretend to bat an eye at other note takers and a
>ar >sense
>ar >ar > nav that was awesome three years ago when it was somewhat
>accurate
>ar >as to
>ar >ar > what was around me, but now I have over 8 thousand dollars
>invested
>ar >into
>ar >ar > a refreshable Braille display that acts as a Braille paper
>weight,
>ar >and a
>ar >ar > GPS RECEIVER THAT TAKES UP SPACE IN MY TRAVEL BACK PACK JUST
>ar >WAITING TO
>ar >ar > come out and play some day in the future.
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > Bryan Duarte Blind Ambitions
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > ininF:* erik burggraaf [mailto:[email protected]]
>ar >ar > ininSent:* Thursday, May 13, 2010 6:36 AM
>ar >ar > ininTo:* [email protected]
>ar >ar > ininSubject:* Re: [GWN] Tip1 for the new Sense notetaker
>firmware
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > Again, it's the licensing, not the software that is at
>issue.
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > What I'm reading is that braille note and mobile geo can
>ar >physically
>ar >ar > share map data on properly licensed and compatible devices,
>but
>ar >ar > braille sense can't, which is a severe limitation.
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > Don't forget that all these devices are built on the same
>ar >ar > development kit, no matter what brand name you put on it.
>That
>ar >ar > doesn't make them all equal, but it at least holds out the
>ar >option to
>ar >ar > have them compatible. An option which, based on what
>people
>ar >are
>ar >ar > saying here, braille note and mobile geo offer, but
>sensenav
>ar >does
>ar >ar > n..
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > Then we have the issue of the licensing for current maps.
>For
>ar >ar > example, I've just found out that 2010 maps are only
>licensed
>ar >to
>ar >ar > mobile geo 2. That of course is so that I and others like
>me
>ar >will
>ar >ar > have to by mspbled and mgeo2 to get a current map, which we
>ar >have the
>ar >ar > option to do. But if the 2010 map were licensed to
>sensenav,
>ar >then
>ar >ar > one way or the other sensenav could use it. Taking care of
>ar >this
>ar >ar > licensing shouldn't require a firmware upgrade, but if it
>did,
>ar >then
>ar >ar > it could be done by a patch without requiring an entire
>ar >firmware,
>ar >ar > since they did that very thing for the braille note. If a
>fee
>ar >had
>ar >ar > to be charged for upgrading maps, well, so be it. Everyone
>has
>ar >a
>ar >ar > right to make money at what they do. Users who aren't
>greatly
>ar >ar > effected by using old map data can buy a case of beer on
>the
>ar >ar > weekend, where-z hard core travellers who need consistent
>ar >accuracy
>ar >ar > could go without for a weekend or two and get the upgrade.
>In
>ar >fact,
>ar >ar > I'm reasonably sure that any one who forked out 6 grand for
>a
>ar >bsp,
>ar >ar > and $1600 for sensenav are not going to quibble at a
>$60-$80
>ar >upgrade
>ar >ar > fee for the map data for their high priced kit. Even
>sighted
>ar >gps
>ar >ar > users incur that cost, although most commercial gps are
>farely
>ar >ar > disposable and so the cost is usually built into a whole
>new
>ar >unit
>ar >ar > and they don't realize they're paying for it.
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > This doesn't seem like rocket science to me. Old map,
>ar >increasingly
>ar >ar > inaccurate, potential time, money and safety concern.
>Answer,
>ar >give
>ar >ar > the customer an option to pay for a new map when an update
>ar >becomes
>ar >ar > available. Then if you want to trundle around unfamiliar
>areas
>ar >with
>ar >ar > a three year old map on your $8000 gps, well you go on and
>ar >giver,
>ar >ar > but the rest of us can be getting on with the best possible
>ar >ar > information, especially when you're like me and you need it
>for
>ar >work
>ar >ar > or school.
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > best,
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > Erik Burggraaf
>ar >ar > Join me Wednesday, May 26th at CNIB Tech Aids fair in
>Toronto.
>ar >I'll
>ar >ar > be at the assistive computing booth from 2 to 4 in the
>ar >afternoon and
>ar >ar > circulating for the rest of the day.
>ar >ar > http://www.erik-burggraaf.com
>ar >ar > 888-255-5194
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > On 2010-05-12, at 5:18 AM, Keith Bucher wrote:
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > Erik,
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > Sense Nav is a HIMS OR Gw Micro product not a Sendero
>ar >product.
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > Sendero licenses it to GW Micro and HIMS. If you use
>ar >Sense
>ar >ar > Nav,
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > as of right now, you are stuck with the 2007 maps. The
>ar >later
>ar >ar > maps
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > are just for the Braillenote products from Humanware.
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > Keith
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, visit:
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, visit:
>ar >ar >
>ar >ar > http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv
>ar >ar
>ar >ar
>ar >ar --
>ar >ar Raul A. Gallegos
>ar >ar GW Micro Technical Support And Product Specialist
>ar >ar Voice 260-489-3671, Fax 260-489-2608
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> Ruthie
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