Greg, I think you bring up a good point about a re-write, and there's 
no question many packages and parts of Vista are way overdue, because
they were neglected for so long.

Re-casting them in another language, adds another level of complexity to the

project, IMO. It doesn't mean it will fail, it just adds complexity.

-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Woodhouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 10:53 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Hardhats-members] Re: MDC/MUG Revival - Just do it


My take is that the basic assumption is that code has limited "shelf
life"; i.e., that there is a point beyond ewhich continuing to patch
the same code without reriting it is counterproductive. If you grant
this assumption, then the next question becomes: What technolog(ies)
should we use in our next rewrite? That leads logically to another
question, which is: What are the advantages and disadvantages of using
a given technology? This is where I think we have failed to make the
case, because so often the issue is framed not in terms of what
advantages there are in using M(UMPS), but whether a significant
rewrite is needed at all.

--- "Sowinski, Richard J." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I think what has been glazed over so far in regard to VA leadership's
> 
> arguments on the death of M are the following.
> 
> 1. Leadership's position: No M programmers. 
> 
>    The truth is, the VA always grew their own via in-house training.
> It was
> very easy to 
>    grow their own, because people with any background in computer
> science or
> engineering
>    can become production-level competent in a matter of weeks. Folks
> without
> a strong
>    theoretical background may take a bit longer, but M is still
> easier to
> learn than just
>    about any other computer language.
> 
> 2. Leadership's position: No MUG.
> 
>    How have they supported MUG ? At the last MUG meeting I went to in
> San
> Diego, most of 
>    the VA people self-funded their trip there. There were no speakers
> or
> breakout session
>    leaders from the the National VA development organization.
>  
> 3. Leadership's position: M is old technology.
>   
>    Yes, old but good, hardware independent, and evolving.
> 
> 4. Leadership's position: Go to Oracle.
> 
>    How does this promote vendor independence ?
> 
> Finally, none of this new "rehosted" stuff has hit the streets yet.
> It
> remains to be seen
> if any of it works, and how well it can be supported in the field.
> 
> There have been no cost comparisons or justifications, so that side
> of the
> equation seems to be completely
> disregarded.
> 
> Another CoreFLs scale disaster would certainly set back the
> "rehosting"
> efforts, and would 
> (hopefully) cause some leaders to rethink their positions. 
> 
> I am not a prophet either, but I am a computer scientist, and I think
> I can
> see that things
> are rather chaotic now, and there is not alot of clarity in "the
> vision".
> Or, if there is,
> it hasn't been articulated very well.
> 
> But, as Rick says "we'll see". 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard G. DAVIS [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 11:33 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] Re: MDC/MUG Revival - Just do it
> 
> 
> Rick's "letter" to Kevin fails on only one small point...  ...it is
> not
> presented in a forum that accords it the distinctive position it
> deserves.
> 
> So, I urge you all to set aside a day in your week, any day will do,
> and
> read only this letter.  Struggle with it, wrestle with it, meditate
> and put
> it aside for another week.  Continue that devotion far into the
> future and
> be ever mindful of the gathering illumination that you will enjoy.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Richard.
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> > From: "Frederick D. S. Marshall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Organization: WorldVistA
> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:29:04 -0800
> > To: Hardhats <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: [Hardhats-members] Re: MDC/MUG Revival - Just do it
> > 
> > Dear Kevin,
> > 
> > We are not in a catch-22.
> > 
> > The Object-Oriented Language subcommittee (SC16) of the MDC spent
> many
> > years examining the state of the art in OO languages and databases
> to
> > determine how MUMPS should be upgraded with OO features.  We know
> how to
> >...
> >....
> >.....
> >......
> > 
> > I do not know who will pay for MUMPS's development, but I do not
> need to
> > know.  I suspect someone will, sooner or later.  We will pursue our
> > work, time will pass, and then we will learn the answer to your
> > question.  I am no prophet, merely a philosopher.
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, 2004-11-26 at 06:54, Kevin Toppenberg wrote:
> >> My thoughts are, who is going to pluck the cash down
> >> on the table to actually write the code the
> >> new-and-improved M?
> >>...
> >>....
> >>.....
> >> 
> >> I think we are in a catch-22
> >> 
> >> Kevin
> > 
> > 
> ..
> ...
> ....
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real
> users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
> 
> http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Hardhats-members mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real
> users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
> 
> http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Hardhats-members mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
> 


=====
A practical man is a man who practices the errors of his forefathers.
--Benjamin Disraeli
====
Greg Woodhouse 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 





-------------------------------------------------------
SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. 
http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/
_______________________________________________
Hardhats-members mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members


-------------------------------------------------------
SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now. 
http://productguide.itmanagersjournal.com/
_______________________________________________
Hardhats-members mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members

Reply via email to