Hi Frank,
Please see inlines below.
On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, Frank Meies wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> On 07.10.2004 14:59, Ilya Konstantinov wrote:
>
> > 1. Do we know for fact what method Microsoft Office internally relies
> > on, to render BiDi correctly?
> > There are the following options:
> > a) BiDi control characters (RLM/LRM/RLE/LRE),
> > b) The language tag assigned to those characters (requires them to
> > write a non-standard BiDi algorithm, which receives,
> > in addition to the text string, a language tag for every character).
>
> Word internally uses a property which sets the direction of the
> characters. Writer uses this property already, but only during the
> export to *.doc (sw/source/core/filter/ww8/writerwordglue.cxx).
>
> > What's stopping us from implementing Microsoft's way on X too, then?
> > I think Microsoft's way is quite convenient; I use Word and Outlook on
> > a daily basis and I must say that I enjoy
> > this feature, and I'm glad to find text fields which have this feature
> > enabled.
>
> The question is how the two proposed approaches can exist together. Let
> me again sum up the options we have:
>
> a) Do it the MS way (aka the character attribute solution). We would
> introduce a character attribute which would automatically be set
> depending on the IME which is used to enter the characters. The
> information obtained from the character attribute can
> be used to resolve the neutral characters. (There is an optional
> UBiDiLevel* embeddingLevels parameter in the ubidi_setPara(...) function
> call).
How would you set this attribute when there is no IME - like on my RH7.3
Linux box using twm window manager and a keyboard mapping that I
downloaded from Pango org and then hacked?
Do we really need to change the OOo file format for this? I don't beloeve
so.
>
> b) Build our own enhancements on top of the Unicode Bidi Algorithm,
> e.g., to resolve the f(x) problem as stated in issue 18024. That would
> mean we identify a couple of problematic cases and automatically insert
> control characters where necessary. This is what mehlng proposes in
Not necessary. No "enhancements" to the standard needed. Just let the user
decide by pressing a shortcut key for LRO, and then PDO when returning to
RTL text flow within an RTL para.
> issue 18024. Compatibility to any Unicode Bidi Algorithm compliant
> application would be assured. Export compatibility to MS Word would not
> be a problem, because during the export we already use the direction
> property of Word. For the import, we would have to analyze the direction
> property and insert control characters into the string according to them
> (assumed that we do *not* implement the character attribute solution).
>
> c) Somehow implement both options. Obviously some prefer option a,
> others prefer option b. A possible solution *could* be to have the
> option "evaluate direction character attribute" and the option
> "automatically insert control characters on certain situations". We
> would generate the character attribute depending on the IME information,
There's no IME information on my computer. Why try to second guess the
user? There will always be some cases when we guess wrong and that's super
annoying when you intended one thing and the software "corrects" you.
> but they would only be evaluated if the appropriate option is set. The
> "evaluate direction..." option has to be set at the document, it has to
> be saved in the file, otherwise one document might look different on two
Again, another attribute to put in the file raising compatability
problems. The explicit LRO/RLO/PDO characters on the otherhand should be
backward compatable.
> systems. But what happens if you do not like the character attribute and
> you receive a file which says "evaluate direction character attribute".
> You may not disable the option, because the file would look different
> than the author might have intended. You have to live with the
> attribute, at least as long as you are working with this file.
Another my 2c (that makes 4c total),
Hava nice weekend,
- yba
>
> > 3. If I'm not mistaken, when Word (XP, 2003) exports text to clipboard,
> > it inserts directional characters to maintain
> > the appearance of the text in the target app.
>
> Yes, there is an option "Add control characters in cut & copy"
> available. This could be implemented in Writer as well, independent from
> the solution we choose for our current problem.
>
> Regards,
>
> Frank
>
> ==============================================================
> To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with "unsubscribe hebrew" in the message body.
>
>
--
EE 77 7F 30 4A 64 2E C5 83 5F E7 49 A6 82 29 BA ~. .~ Tk Open Systems
=}------------------------------------------------ooO--U--Ooo------------{=
- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - tel: +972.2.679.5364, http://www.tkos.co.il -
==============================================================
To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with "unsubscribe hebrew" in the message body.
