sorry to disturb .look a thah guys,,, bye sylvain http://www.interencheres.com/ventes_aux_encheres/RESULT_vente_venir_1clic.php?rm=1&form_mot=vielle+a+roue&form_region=03-43-15-63&form_id_sscat=&form_date=&form_date2=&image5.x=10&image5.y=6
sylvain dont have money to bid on 5 gurdies ,,, mm maybe one of you can.. ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:48 AM Subject: Re: Re[2]: [HG] Is this a Lyra ? Yes, exactly. I think Wayne Gretzky the famous hockey player had a similar fluidity which illustrates the whole confusing mess beautifully. He publicly called himself of Polish descent for much of his career, although privately he confided that his ancestry was actually Ukrainian. His paternal grandfather was from Belarus, and his grandmother was from Ukraine. They emigrated to Canada through Krakow Poland. His father, Walter Gretzky explained it differently. Speaking of his recovery from stroke he said, "I went back to the first language I ever learned, which was Ukrainian. See, my father was Russian and my mom was Polish, and the common language was Ukrainian. We spoke Ukrainian at home". Orest -- "Chris Nogy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am almost 100% pure Pole. On the day my mother married (in the words of my grandmother) "that no-good, son of a coal mining Polish ^&*&^&%^%$%&" that same grandmother made the announcement to her own family "We are no longer Polish. We are now Ukraine". So I understand completely. Things like this are more fluid than we might like. ;-) Chris *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 12/12/2007 at 6:31 AM Arle Lommel wrote: >Orest, > >Your research points out one of the problems we have in discussing the >instruments. When we talk about them we tend to want to put labels on >them for where they come from. Those labels tend to be based on modern >concepts of geopolitics and ethnicity, but categories like Polish and >Ukrainian, as useful as the may be, are abstractions that actual >people tended to ignore. So if the lira korbowa and lyra don't >correspond exactly to political constructs, we shouldn't be surprised: >after all the region you are talking about was known for years as >Galicia and people moved freely through it. Trying to determine >whether a type is "Polish" or "Ukrainian" in that region is really >impossible and historically inaccurate. (I know you're not trying to >do that, and your mail shows exactly why it can't be done.) Especially >in Eastern/Central Europe, borders in the past were much more porous >than today and culture and ideas blended and swirled pretty freely. > >If we take the "Hungarian" instrument as an example, it's really >Austrian in origin and was imported to Hungary in the 1800s, probably >displacing a lyra-type instrument already in use (there is some >evidence of that type in modern-day Hungary prior to the 17th >century). So is it Hungarian or is is Austrian? The answer, perhaps, >is just "yes". Some changes were made in ethnic Hungarian areas and >the instrument found a home in what is today considered "Hungarian" >music, but it was also found in areas with a some people we'd now call >Serbs and Croats, so is it a Serbian or Croatian instrument? It >depends on definitions that are harder to make the closer you look at >them. There is even a fellow in a "Hungarian" area of Serbia (modern >nation-state) who builds Hungarian-type instruments... > >I write this not to pick on anything you wrote at all, but rather to >emphasize that calling something "Polish", "Ukrainian", "Hungarian", >or "Austrian" is an action that conceals as much as it reveals and >that, to some extent, trying to make hurdy-gurdies fit in these >categories is like trying to pound a round peg into the proverbial >square hole. > >Best, > >Arle _____________________________________________________________ Online Trading - Learn to make serious money in the market. Click Now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.1/1181 - Release Date: 2007-12-11 17:05
