Simon, I just corresponded with Stefan Puchalski a Lira Korbowa builder in Port 
Townsend Washington.  One of his instruments is on display in the Ethnographic 
Museum of Krakow.  I found it interesting that on his website he refers to the 
"Polish/Ukrainian lira korbowa".  So I emailed  him to ask why.  His response 
was as follows:
"The reason I say "Polish/Ukrainian" is precisely because there was so little 
distinction between them. The instruments I model mine after are those in the 
collection of the Krakow Museum of Ethnography. Most of them have vague 
descriptions of having been collected in SE Poland and/or Ukraine. Surviving 
pictures of lirniki (the word's the same in Polish as well) are generally just 
as vague as to location, but show the same type of instrument."

As an aside, I should note that this vague reference to locality is very much 
what I expected.  South East Poland contains some large areas  that are 
ethnically Ukrainian.  So based on the Krakow museum instruments, we don't know 
whether the instruments were collected in ethnic Ukrainian areas under Polish 
jurisdiction, or whether they were also employed by ethnic Poles who happened 
to live near ethnically Ukrainian areas.  We do know that some of the 
instruments did actually come from Ukraine, and so would probably not be true 
ethnic Polish instruments.

Mr. Puchalski goes on to explain that the Ukrainian lira and the lira korbowa 
are exactly the same, such that they are interchangeable.  One singular 
difference that he noted is that he did not find any lira korbowa made with the 
carved out body sometimes found in Ukraine, only the built up types.  This of 
course could be happenstance, given the small number of surviving instruments, 
we don't know.  Also, Mr. Puchalski states that there may have been differences 
in the repertoire and style of playing, but he points out that that is based 
only on anecdotal evidence.

Incidentally, Mr. Puchalski makes a variety of hurdy-gurdys which incorporate 
elements of Polish/Ukrainian/Bohemian/French/Hungarian instruments.  While he 
doesn't give prices on his website, he most definitely appears to take on 
commissions for instruments.
http://www.stefciu.com/

Stanisław Wyżykowski who is probably the best known builder in 
Poland, coincidentally lives in the foothills of the Carpathian mountains near 
Ukraine (his town is only about 40-50 miles from my own father's village in 
Ukraine), in an area that is historically and ethnically Lemko/Rusyn - an 
ancient tribe of Ukrainians.  This is interesting to me not because it gives 
any clear indication of the roots of the lira korbowa, but it does pique my 
curiosity that the activity and history surrounding lira korbowa seems 
concentrated in Southeast Poland, which at least suggests a link with the 
Ukrainian instrument.  Possibly the interest in revival has spread from 
Ukraine, where traditions were better preserved (by virtue of being a backwater 
nation for centuries) and the revival is more organized and systematic?

Orest

-- Simon Wascher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello,

Am 11.12.2007 um 15:42 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Yes, as I say, though the keys are more-or-less equally spaced, the  
> tangents are offset by quite a bit to make up the difference.  I  
> think its safe to say that this is a lyra and not a vielle, given  
> the size of the wheel, the lack of a chien, and the spacing of the  
> keys - also that it is played by Andrey Vinogradov, who plays lyra  
> and rylia, somewhat narrows down the possibilities.
>
> Point of clarification, most Lyrniks and Kobzars were killed  
> (murdered, exterminated) under orders of the Stalin government.   
> "Died" just sounds to innocuous to describe what really happened.
>
there seems to be a quite lively polish "Lira" tribe today, do you  
happen to know how this is related to the Lyrniks and Kobzars?

Anyway there was pretty much time to create new traditions since  
Stalins death in 1953. At least most of todays european traditions  
were more death than alive in 1953, like the hurdy-gurdy traditions  
not just in the Ukraine. Klezmer for example wove new threads into  
traditions since.

A quick search on Лира Колёсная gives 1270 Google hits, so  
there is at least ab it of it out there...

would be interested to learn more...

Simon



>
>
> Orest
>
>
> -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Is that a lyra ?    I would say yes , it looks like the  
> instruments  used by
> russian and ukranian " lynikis "   from old photos .
>   May I remind you that most lirnikis  died in the Stalin period .
>
>   The instrument is also  similar to the one in Boston fine arts  
> museum
> that was labelled as french in 1995 , I do not know if the label  
> has been
> changed .
>
>   Do you notice that the tangents are in a very extreme position ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: Re: [HG] Is this a Lyra ?
> >Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:00:57 GMT
> >
> >It looks like a Lyra.  Vinogradov also plays Rylia, but that has a
> >different shape.  I wonder whether this one is pentatonic?  The  
> keys are
> >spaced so far apart.  They are not quite equal, the keys nearer to  
> the
> >wheel are closer together, but also, the tangents are offset by  
> quite a
> >bit.
> >Orest
> >
> >-- "Graham Whyte" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Just listen to this
> >
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DX08nQows0
> >
> >Its great sound and a great tune
> >
> >I don't think its an HG
> >I am pretty sure it's a Lyra
> >
> >It has EQUALLY SPACED KEYS !!!
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Click to get the coolest ring tones on your phone, fast and easy

---
have a look at:
http://hurdygurdywiki.wiki-site.com
http://drehleierwiki.wiki-site.com
---
my site:
http://simonwascher.info
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