Doesn't the steam.inf file have something to do with versioning? garry
On Dec 9, 2007 4:30 AM, Jeremy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Sorry for reviving this, but can I please get some sort of response from > Valve? > > I'd imagine their updates probably never break netcode compatibility and > such, but is that to say there isn't the infrastructure to support game > compatibility breaking changes? > > For whatever reason, a number of servers for our mod still haven't updated > to the latest version, clients go through several attempts at joining > servers, only to error out, before finding one that works. As you can > imagine it really destroys the player perception of a mod when we can't do > fundamentally basic things like differentiate versions between one another. > That includes only showing clients servers compatible with their version, > and giving meaningful error messages to them if they do somehow try to join > one. > > Valve, please throw something into this discussion. Surely the need is > obvious. > > J > > > On Nov 22, 2007 1:28 AM, Julian Moschüring <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Most recent example would be Garry's Mod. > > Valve gets money, the mod community gets more popular, the sdk > > improves... everyone is happy. Where is the point of this discussion? > > > > Adam Maras (memzero) wrote: > > > It wasn't on the Source engine a long time ago. It also wasn't owned by > > > VALVe a long time ago. > > > > > > // Adam Maras (memzero) > > > > > > Kori wrote: > > >> It was along time ago. > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "Nick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> To: <[email protected]> > > >> Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 7:14 PM > > >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Proper mod versioning? > > >> > > >> > > >> CS isn't free... > > >> > > >> On Nov 21, 2007 5:57 PM, Slash <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>> Ha! Valve hasn't made money off of mods? Have you lost your marbles? > > >>> > > >>> http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=stats > > >>> > > >>> See that "Counter-Strike" thing there at the top? That's a mod. Not > > >>> only did it bring in great revenue by itself once Valve "adopted" it, > > >>> but it also made Steam a legitimate and popular platform. Valve > > >>> wouldn't be in the position they are right now without HL1 mods and > > >>> millions and million of people playing them. With appropriate > > >>> resources, anyone can make a platform like Steam- The problem is > > >>> getting people to use it. HL1 mods are what got people using Steam. > > >>> People = Money. And now it has tons of games and that is very > > >>> beneficial to Valve. And it's not just CS- There are a ton of mods > > >>> throughout the years that contributed to the success of Valve's online > > >>> presence. Without the strong mod community in HL1, I would fancy a > > >>> guess that Steam would either not exist or would be an irrelevancy. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Nov 21, 2007 6:36 PM, Nick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>> > Now before people get upset. Valve helps mods a great deal, but > > >>> > clearly it isn't their top priority, nor should it be. > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > On Nov 21, 2007 5:35 PM, Nick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>> > > Since when did Valve ever make money off free mods? I really see > > no > > >>> > > reason for Valve to help mods that could and probably do compete > > >>> > > against Valve products? > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > On Nov 21, 2007 12:04 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>> > > > Indeed, that example falls in to the category of new version > > >>> > > > interpretations, or client/server havoc from differing > > >>> incompatible > > >>> > > > code bases. I think we (and all the other modders out there) > > >>> are in > > >>> > > > violent agreement on this one. > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > It's just a question at this point as to what Valve's planning > > >>> to do > > >>> > > > about it, since it's really out of the modders hands to have a > > >>> > > > reasonable solution here. > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > At 2007/11/20 12:48 PM, Jeremy wrote: > > >>> > > > >It was a simple example, but it illustrates the trivial > > >>> nature of > > >>> > > > >what > > >>> > > > >it needs, which is simply a way for the engine to ask the mod > > >>> for a > > >>> > > > >version number. Same thing as your example. It doesn't mean it > > >>> > > > >corresponds to the public release version number, just breaking > > >>> > > > >changes would need to change that, and not just class table > > >>> changes > > >>> > > > >or > > >>> > > > >user messages. Anything that alters the behavior of a game > > >>> > > > >entities, > > >>> > > > >like our FF 1.1 to 1.11 we tweaked the assault cannon spinup > > >>> time. > > >>> > > > >While technically not a breaking change in the sense that > > >>> clients > > >>> > > > >can > > >>> > > > >join 1.1 servers and not get an error, the different values on > > >>> each > > >>> > > > >side result in awkward behavior, and the newer client would > > >>> appear > > >>> > > > >to > > >>> > > > >be shooting ineffectively earlier if the server was still > > >>> using the > > >>> > > > >longer spinup time. It's not just a way to catch table > > >>> mismatches > > >>> > > > >early, it's a way to keep client and servers in sync, and more > > >>> > > > >importantly, give clients an error message that means > > something. > > >>> > > > >There's no alternative to doing this but for the engine to ask > > >>> the > > >>> > > > >mod. It's a bit short sighted that something like that doesn't > > >>> > > > >already > > >>> > > > >exist. > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > >J > > >>> > > > > > > >>> > > > >On Nov 20, 2007 9:53 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >>> wrote: > > >>> > > > >> Your example is a bit misleading as to what would be > > >>> needed. You > > >>> > > > >> shouldn't include version numbers in the description of the > > >>> mod. > > >>> > > > >> You can always just add an sv_version cvar if you want a > > >>> > > > >> stringified representation of the version. > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> The version that the srcds.exe/HL2.exe closed-source side of > > >>> > > > >> things would be concerned with would only be incremented > > >>> when the > > >>> > > > >> new version was not backwards-compatible with the old > > version. > > >>> > > > >> Usually this would occur when class tables changed. It might > > >>> > > > >> also occur if usermessages needed to be interpreted > > >>> differently, > > >>> > > > >> or perhaps if there were a critical bug of some sort in a > > >>> client > > >>> > > > >> previous version and you wanted to prevent it from > > >>> connecting to > > >>> > > > >> a new server and causing havoc. If the > > >>> compatibility_version of > > >>> > > > >> the server differed from the client, then it would just pop > > >>> up a > > >>> > > > >> message with a link to the "manual" or "developer_url" > > >>> websites > > >>> > > > >> as defined in gameinfo.txt. > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> ConVar sv_version("sv_version", "v6.1a beta"); > > >>> > > > >> void GameRules::GetGameDescription(char*& description, int& > > >>> > > > >> compatibility_version) > > >>> > > > >> { > > >>> > > > >> description = "My Mod"; > > >>> > > > >> compatibility_version = 4; > > >>> > > > >> } > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> Another possibility would be to leverage some of the sv_pure > > >>> > > > >> functionality to allow for specification of a list of > > >>> sha1sums of > > >>> > > > >> acceptable client.dll/server.dll on the client, for a given > > >>> > > > >> version of the server. The only downside there would be that > > >>> > > > >> you'd need to inform server hosts to add a new sha1sum to > > >>> their > > >>> > > > >> server list every time a new client version was released. > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> At 2007/11/17 02:05 PM, Jeffrey \"botman\" Broome wrote: > > >>> > > > >> >Jorge Rodriguez wrote: > > >>> > > > >> >>-- > > >>> > > > >> >>[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > >>> > > > >> >>On 11/17/07, Jeremy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >>> > > > >> >>>It's a bit hard to believe something so trivial as > > >>> > > > >> >>>client->server > > >>> > > > >> >>>versioning > > >>> > > > >> >> > > >>> > > > >> >> > > >>> > > > >> >>... trivial? > > >>> > > > >> >> > > >>> > > > >> >>I don't know where you got that idea. > > >>> > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >> >It could be trivial if GameRules::GetGameDescription() > > >>> returned > > >>> > > > >> >a > > >>> > > > >> >version number as well as a string... > > >>> > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >> >GameRules::GetGameDescription(char *Description, int > > >>> *Version) > > >>> > > > >> >{ > > >>> > > > >> > strcpy(Description, "My Mod v.83"); > > >>> > > > >> > *Version = 83; > > >>> > > > >> >} > > >>> > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >> >The client would also need some way to return the version > > >>> number > > >>> > > > >> >to the > > >>> > > > >> >engine so that it could check this when displaying servers > > >>> > > > >> >(filtering > > >>> > > > >> >out servers that weren't running the same version as the > > >>> > > > >> >client). > > >>> > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >> >-- > > >>> > > > >> >Jeffrey "botman" Broome > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > _______________________________________________ > > >>> > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > >>> > > > archives, please visit: > > >>> > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > > >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > >>> archives, > > >>> > please visit: > > >>> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > >> please visit: > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > >> please visit: > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
