Unless you pre bake your entire scene with static radiosity lighting. Then you only have to worry about dynamic scene elements.
-------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Corsaro" <corsa...@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 2:12 PM To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! > As a user on FP pointed out, it also culls backfacing points so all > advanced > shading is pointless, and shadows are impossible without re-rendering the > entire scene. > > On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 11:56 PM, Bob Somers <magicbob...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Same as Adam. The videos dumb it down too much. As far as I'm >> concerned, it's vaporware until the SIGGRAPH paper. >> >> --Bob >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 2:38 AM, Adam Buckland <adamjbuckl...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > I still take this "unlimited detail" company with a pinch of salt. >> > I'll believe it when they publish a paper at SIGGRAPH and show a >> > real-time working demo. >> > >> > On 20 June 2010 08:18, Adam "amckern" McKern <amck...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> Yeah Unity 3d >> >> >> >> But point mapping is still a rather good idea >> >> >> >> -------- >> >> Owner Nigredo Studios http://www.nigredostudios.com >> >> >> >> --- On Sun, 20/6/10, kostiak <kkapl...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> From: kostiak <kkapl...@gmail.com> >> >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! >> >> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < >> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> >> >> Received: Sunday, 20 June, 2010, 4:36 PM >> >> >> >> Maybe you mean http://unity3d.com/ >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Adam "amckern" McKern < >> amck...@yahoo.com>wrote: >> >> >> >>> I have seen that type of engine used before with a mac demo engine - >> >>> nothing new - it was called something like Infinity 3d - all i can >> >>> find >> on >> >>> the web is some Russian flash game engine. >> >>> >> >>> -------- >> >>> Owner Nigredo Studios http://www.nigredostudios.com >> >>> >> >>> --- On Sun, 20/6/10, Christopher Harris <char...@resrchnet.com> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> From: Christopher Harris <char...@resrchnet.com> >> >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! >> >>> To: "'Discussion of Half-Life Programming'" < >> >>> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> >> >>> Received: Sunday, 20 June, 2010, 12:33 PM >> >>> >> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXJUGLiZkV0 >> >>> http://unlimiteddetailtechnology.com/pictures.html >> >>> >> >>> There is also possibility to render point cloud data instead. This >> company >> >>> has an algorithm to select points to renders so that you have a 1 to >> >>> 1 >> >>> point >> >>> to pixel ratio. >> >>> >> >>> Chris >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com >> >>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Justin >> Krenz >> >>> Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 4:49 PM >> >>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming >> >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! >> >>> >> >>> I believe he was referring to your claim about voxels being the first >> >>> thing used in 3d. Vector graphics (lines/edges) were the first >> >>> things >> >>> used in 3d with games like Battlezone and Star Wars at the arcades.. >> >>> >> >>> If you think voxels are so great, what did you think about Kevin >> >>> Silverman's voxlap engine? http://voxelstein3d.sourceforge.net/ >> >>> >> >>> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Joel R. <joelru...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> > Please enlighten me then, Marek. Voxels can be better the smaller >> they >> >>> are, >> >>> > and in a few years will be better suited when we have more powerful >> >>> > computers. Many are still struggling to even play TF2 with their >> current >> >>> > machines. So yes, I'm retarded because I thought ahead of your >> >>> > small >> >>> mind. >> >>> > >> >>> > On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Adam Buckland >> >>> <adamjbuckl...@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> >> That's the plan. He's hoping to do something similar to id tech >> >>> >> 5's >> >>> >> megatexture technology for geometry. It's called sparse voxel >> >>> >> octree >> >>> >> technology >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Basically(from what I understand), the idea is to make the voxels >> very >> >>> >> very small to allow for high fidelity, but to only load the depth >> >>> >> of >> >>> >> the octree that could be seen at the current resolution, therefore >> >>> >> allowing for incredibly detailed models, that only stream the >> >>> >> small >> >>> >> details if they could be seen at the current resolution. This is a >> big >> >>> >> step up from LOD where the programmer basically has to guess where >> to >> >>> >> swap the models out (and they need to be separate models) >> >>> >> >> >>> >> On 18 June 2010 18:42, Harry Jeffery < >> harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> >> >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >> > I believe John Carmack is hoping to use voxels in id Tech 6. >> >>> >> > That >> >>> >> > engine's only 10 years away so who knows, this could be the >> >>> >> > future >> but >> >>> >> > we wont find out until we get there. >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > On 18 June 2010 17:26, Harry Pidcock <haz...@tpg.com.au> wrote: >> >>> >> >> Ray traced polygon rendering is quite an expensive task on a >> >>> >> >> CPU. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> But real time point cloud rendering can be done on it quite >> >>> >> >> well. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-ATtrImCx4 >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Yes its a bit cheesy, but that's because Bruce Dell doesn't >> >>> >> >> have >> a >> >>> >> marketing >> >>> >> >> budget. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> This video is rendered in real time on a single core CPU, >> although it >> >>> is >> >>> >> >> only rendering at like 800x600, >> >>> >> >> if the algorithm had some parallelism, maybe even have it >> developed >> >>> for >> >>> >> >> GPUs/hardware specialization. Then it would certainly be >> >>> >> >> able to render large amounts of detail at a higher resolution. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Although it doesn't have any advanced shading, it is still >> >>> >> >> quite >> >>> >> interesting >> >>> >> >> to see such a complex static environment drawn with a single >> >>> >> >> CPU >> >>> thread. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Of course there are huge computational and memory issues with >> bone >> >>> >> >> animation, shading, transparency etc. So don't think you will >> >>> >> >> see >> >>> this >> >>> >> in >> >>> >> >> the next 5 - 10years. >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> >>> >> >> From: "Jonathan Murphy" <nuclearfri...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> >> Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 12:31 AM >> >>> >> >> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < >> >>> >> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> >> >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> Katrina, you might be interested in reading up on Real Time >> >>> >> >>> Raytracing, which is an alternative to rasterisation (GPU) >> >>> >> >>> based >> >>> >> >>> rendering and is/has been extensively researched and even >> >>> implemented. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_tracing_(graphics)< >> >>> http://en.m.wikipedia. >> >>> org/wiki/Ray_tracing_%28graphics%29> >> >>> >> >>> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_Wars:_Ray_Traced >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> At the moment though it seems GPUs are going to stay very >> >>> mainstream. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Saturday, June 19, 2010, joshua simmons < >> simmons...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Oh yeah I understand. There is only very rudmentry 3d >> >>> >> >>>> support, >> in >> >>> no >> >>> >> way >> >>> >> >>>> capable of supporting any game. My point was more on the >> radical >> >>> rate >> >>> >> at >> >>> >> >>>> which they are evolving in comparison. Even the purely >> >>> >> >>>> reverse >> >>> >> engineered >> >>> >> >>>> open source NVIDIA driver is out doing the proprietary one in >> terms >> >>> of >> >>> >> >>>> 2d. >> >>> >> >>>> Now I of course realise there is a big jump from that to >> capable >> >>> 3d, >> >>> >> but >> >>> >> >>>> considering (iirc) amd have developers working on the open >> source >> >>> >> driver, >> >>> >> >>>> I >> >>> >> >>>> see it as mainly a matter of time before it becomes a viable >> >>> >> alternative. >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> On 18 Jun 2010 22:01, "Bob Somers" <magicbob...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> Katrina, I'm not giving lectures on computer graphics here. >> Google >> >>> has >> >>> >> >>>> all the information you asked for. If you'd like, I can also >> >>> recommend >> >>> >> >>>> some graphics textbooks which would clear things up. Also, >> saying a >> >>> >> >>>> Linux system running on a 100 MHz machine is comparable to >> Windows >> >>> >> >>>> running on a 2 GHz machine is a ridiculous overstatement. >> >>> >> >>>> They >> are >> >>> not >> >>> >> >>>> that radically different. If you're so convinced you can make >> the >> >>> >> >>>> words best software renderer, by all means go do it. I'm sure >> at >> >>> the >> >>> >> >>>> very least you can wave your SIGGRAPH paper in our faces when >> >>> you're >> >>> >> >>>> done. >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> Josh, I'm not sure you can call it better Linux support if >> their 3D >> >>> >> >>>> support is... well... really bad. They may have opened up >> >>> >> >>>> their >> >>> >> >>>> hardware spec so that the free drivers can get rolling (I >> >>> >> >>>> have >> >>> tried >> >>> >> >>>> the new drivers in Fedora 13 and they are quite good so far), >> but >> >>> the >> >>> >> >>>> free drivers are at least a year behind their Windows >> counterpart >> >>> in >> >>> >> >>>> terms of supporting the full features of the cards. There is >> >>> virtually >> >>> >> >>>> zero shader support in the free drivers at this point. >> >>> >> >>>> nVidia's >> >>> >> >>>> drivers, on the other hand, may be proprietary, but at least >> you >> >>> can >> >>> >> >>>> get decent 3D performance out of the machine on a current >> distro. >> >>> The >> >>> >> >>>> proprietary ATI driver has decent support and performance, >> >>> >> >>>> but >> it >> >>> >> >>>> won't run on anything newer than Fedora 11. (Sorry if I keep >> >>> >> >>>> referencing things in terms of Fedora versions, it's my >> >>> >> >>>> distro >> of >> >>> >> >>>> choice.) >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> I'm all for free software, don't get me wrong. I would love >> >>> >> >>>> for >> >>> >> >>>> nothing more than to have free alternative drivers for ATI >> >>> >> >>>> and >> >>> nVidia >> >>> >> >>>> cards, but if gaming is really going to be commercially >> >>> >> >>>> viable >> on >> >>> the >> >>> >> >>>> Linux desktop it's the performance that matters. No publisher >> is >> >>> going >> >>> >> >>>> to bother trying to ship a game for Linux where the poor >> >>> >> >>>> driver >> >>> >> >>>> support is going to cause them support headaches all day >> >>> >> >>>> long. >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> --Bob >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 4:38 AM, joshua simmons >> >>> <simmons...@gmail.com >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>>> Actually to be h... >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >>> >> archives, >> >>> >> >>>> please visit: >> >>> >> >>>>> http://list... >> >>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >>> archives, >> >>> >> >>>> please visit: >> >>> >> >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >>> archives, >> >>> >> >>> please visit: >> >>> >> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >> >>> >> >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >>> >> >>> Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2945 - Release >> >>> >> >>> Date: >> >>> >> 06/18/10 >> >>> >> >>> 04:35:00 >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >>> archives, >> >>> >> please visit: >> >>> >> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >> >>> >> please visit: >> >>> >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> -- >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Bucky >> >>> >> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >> >>> >> please visit: >> >>> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> > _______________________________________________ >> >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >> >>> please visit: >> >>> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >>> archives, >> >>> please visit: >> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >>> archives, >> >>> please visit: >> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> >>> archives, >> >>> please visit: >> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >>> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Bucky >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> . > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2952 - Release Date: 06/21/10 > 04:36:00 > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
