I would hope not, pre baking is great for some things like maybe an ambient pass. Valve do a good job with rad but it's not as much fun.
~Ryan On Jun 21, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Saul Rennison <saul.renni...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ewwwwwww. Ew ew ewwwww! > > Thanks, > - Saul. > > > On 21 June 2010 05:38, Harry Pidcock <haz...@tpg.com.au> wrote: > >> Unless you pre bake your entire scene with static radiosity lighting. >> >> Then you only have to worry about dynamic scene elements. >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Michael Corsaro" <corsa...@gmail.com> >> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 2:12 PM >> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com >>> >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! >> >>> As a user on FP pointed out, it also culls backfacing points so all >>> advanced >>> shading is pointless, and shadows are impossible without re- >>> rendering the >>> entire scene. >>> >>> On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 11:56 PM, Bob Somers <magicbob...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Same as Adam. The videos dumb it down too much. As far as I'm >>>> concerned, it's vaporware until the SIGGRAPH paper. >>>> >>>> --Bob >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 2:38 AM, Adam Buckland <adamjbuckl...@gmail.com >>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> I still take this "unlimited detail" company with a pinch of salt. >>>>> I'll believe it when they publish a paper at SIGGRAPH and show a >>>>> real-time working demo. >>>>> >>>>> On 20 June 2010 08:18, Adam "amckern" McKern <amck...@yahoo.com> >> wrote: >>>>>> Yeah Unity 3d >>>>>> >>>>>> But point mapping is still a rather good idea >>>>>> >>>>>> -------- >>>>>> Owner Nigredo Studios http://www.nigredostudios.com >>>>>> >>>>>> --- On Sun, 20/6/10, kostiak <kkapl...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> From: kostiak <kkapl...@gmail.com> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! >>>>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < >>>> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> >>>>>> Received: Sunday, 20 June, 2010, 4:36 PM >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe you mean http://unity3d.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Adam "amckern" McKern < >>>> amck...@yahoo.com>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have seen that type of engine used before with a mac demo >>>>>>> engine - >>>>>>> nothing new - it was called something like Infinity 3d - all i >>>>>>> can >>>>>>> find >>>> on >>>>>>> the web is some Russian flash game engine. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -------- >>>>>>> Owner Nigredo Studios http://www.nigredostudios.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- On Sun, 20/6/10, Christopher Harris <char...@resrchnet.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Christopher Harris <char...@resrchnet.com> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! >>>>>>> To: "'Discussion of Half-Life Programming'" < >>>>>>> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> >>>>>>> Received: Sunday, 20 June, 2010, 12:33 PM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXJUGLiZkV0 >>>>>>> http://unlimiteddetailtechnology.com/pictures.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There is also possibility to render point cloud data instead. >>>>>>> This >>>> company >>>>>>> has an algorithm to select points to renders so that you have >>>>>>> a 1 to >>>>>>> 1 >>>>>>> point >>>>>>> to pixel ratio. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com >>>>>>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of >> Justin >>>> Krenz >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 4:49 PM >>>>>>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I believe he was referring to your claim about voxels being the >> first >>>>>>> thing used in 3d. Vector graphics (lines/edges) were the first >>>>>>> things >>>>>>> used in 3d with games like Battlezone and Star Wars at the >>>>>>> arcades.. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you think voxels are so great, what did you think about Kevin >>>>>>> Silverman's voxlap engine? http://voxelstein3d.sourceforge.net/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Joel R. <joelru...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>>>>>>> Please enlighten me then, Marek. Voxels can be better the >>>>>>>> smaller >>>> they >>>>>>> are, >>>>>>>> and in a few years will be better suited when we have more >> powerful >>>>>>>> computers. Many are still struggling to even play TF2 with >>>>>>>> their >>>> current >>>>>>>> machines. So yes, I'm retarded because I thought ahead of your >>>>>>>> small >>>>>>> mind. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Adam Buckland >>>>>>> <adamjbuckl...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That's the plan. He's hoping to do something similar to id >>>>>>>>> tech >>>>>>>>> 5's >>>>>>>>> megatexture technology for geometry. It's called sparse voxel >>>>>>>>> octree >>>>>>>>> technology >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Basically(from what I understand), the idea is to make the >>>>>>>>> voxels >>>> very >>>>>>>>> very small to allow for high fidelity, but to only load the >>>>>>>>> depth >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> the octree that could be seen at the current resolution, >> therefore >>>>>>>>> allowing for incredibly detailed models, that only stream the >>>>>>>>> small >>>>>>>>> details if they could be seen at the current resolution. >>>>>>>>> This is >> a >>>> big >>>>>>>>> step up from LOD where the programmer basically has to guess >> where >>>> to >>>>>>>>> swap the models out (and they need to be separate models) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 18 June 2010 18:42, Harry Jeffery < >>>> harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> I believe John Carmack is hoping to use voxels in id Tech 6. >>>>>>>>>> That >>>>>>>>>> engine's only 10 years away so who knows, this could be the >>>>>>>>>> future >>>> but >>>>>>>>>> we wont find out until we get there. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 18 June 2010 17:26, Harry Pidcock <haz...@tpg.com.au> >> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Ray traced polygon rendering is quite an expensive task on a >>>>>>>>>>> CPU. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> But real time point cloud rendering can be done on it quite >>>>>>>>>>> well. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-ATtrImCx4 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes its a bit cheesy, but that's because Bruce Dell doesn't >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>> a >>>>>>>>> marketing >>>>>>>>>>> budget. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This video is rendered in real time on a single core CPU, >>>> although it >>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>> only rendering at like 800x600, >>>>>>>>>>> if the algorithm had some parallelism, maybe even have it >>>> developed >>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> GPUs/hardware specialization. Then it would certainly be >>>>>>>>>>> able to render large amounts of detail at a higher >>>>>>>>>>> resolution. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Although it doesn't have any advanced shading, it is still >>>>>>>>>>> quite >>>>>>>>> interesting >>>>>>>>>>> to see such a complex static environment drawn with a single >>>>>>>>>>> CPU >>>>>>> thread. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Of course there are huge computational and memory issues >>>>>>>>>>> with >>>> bone >>>>>>>>>>> animation, shading, transparency etc. So don't think you >>>>>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>>>>> see >>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> the next 5 - 10years. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>> From: "Jonathan Murphy" <nuclearfri...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 12:31 AM >>>>>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < >>>>>>>>> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Katrina, you might be interested in reading up on Real Time >>>>>>>>>>>> Raytracing, which is an alternative to rasterisation (GPU) >>>>>>>>>>>> based >>>>>>>>>>>> rendering and is/has been extensively researched and even >>>>>>> implemented. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_tracing_(graphics)<http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_tracing_%28graphics%29 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > >> < >>>>>>> http://en.m.wikipedia. >>>>>>> org/wiki/Ray_tracing_%28graphics%29> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_Wars:_Ray_Traced >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> At the moment though it seems GPUs are going to stay very >>>>>>> mainstream. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, June 19, 2010, joshua simmons < >>>> simmons...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh yeah I understand. There is only very rudmentry 3d >>>>>>>>>>>>> support, >>>> in >>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>>>>>>> capable of supporting any game. My point was more on the >>>> radical >>>>>>> rate >>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>> which they are evolving in comparison. Even the purely >>>>>>>>>>>>> reverse >>>>>>>>> engineered >>>>>>>>>>>>> open source NVIDIA driver is out doing the proprietary one >> in >>>> terms >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2d. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Now I of course realise there is a big jump from that to >>>> capable >>>>>>> 3d, >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>>>> considering (iirc) amd have developers working on the open >>>> source >>>>>>>>> driver, >>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>>>> see it as mainly a matter of time before it becomes a >>>>>>>>>>>>> viable >>>>>>>>> alternative. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 18 Jun 2010 22:01, "Bob Somers" <magicbob...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Katrina, I'm not giving lectures on computer graphics >>>>>>>>>>>>> here. >>>> Google >>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>>>> all the information you asked for. If you'd like, I can >>>>>>>>>>>>> also >>>>>>> recommend >>>>>>>>>>>>> some graphics textbooks which would clear things up. Also, >>>> saying a >>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux system running on a 100 MHz machine is comparable to >>>> Windows >>>>>>>>>>>>> running on a 2 GHz machine is a ridiculous overstatement. >>>>>>>>>>>>> They >>>> are >>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>>>> that radically different. If you're so convinced you can >> make >>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> words best software renderer, by all means go do it. I'm >> sure >>>> at >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> very least you can wave your SIGGRAPH paper in our faces >> when >>>>>>> you're >>>>>>>>>>>>> done. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Josh, I'm not sure you can call it better Linux support if >>>> their 3D >>>>>>>>>>>>> support is... well... really bad. They may have opened up >>>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>>> hardware spec so that the free drivers can get rolling (I >>>>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>> tried >>>>>>>>>>>>> the new drivers in Fedora 13 and they are quite good so >> far), >>>> but >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> free drivers are at least a year behind their Windows >>>> counterpart >>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>>>> terms of supporting the full features of the cards. >>>>>>>>>>>>> There is >>>>>>> virtually >>>>>>>>>>>>> zero shader support in the free drivers at this point. >>>>>>>>>>>>> nVidia's >>>>>>>>>>>>> drivers, on the other hand, may be proprietary, but at >>>>>>>>>>>>> least >>>> you >>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>> get decent 3D performance out of the machine on a current >>>> distro. >>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>>>> proprietary ATI driver has decent support and performance, >>>>>>>>>>>>> but >>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>>> won't run on anything newer than Fedora 11. (Sorry if I >>>>>>>>>>>>> keep >>>>>>>>>>>>> referencing things in terms of Fedora versions, it's my >>>>>>>>>>>>> distro >>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>>> choice.) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm all for free software, don't get me wrong. I would >>>>>>>>>>>>> love >>>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing more than to have free alternative drivers for ATI >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>> nVidia >>>>>>>>>>>>> cards, but if gaming is really going to be commercially >>>>>>>>>>>>> viable >>>> on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux desktop it's the performance that matters. No >> publisher >>>> is >>>>>>> going >>>>>>>>>>>>> to bother trying to ship a game for Linux where the poor >>>>>>>>>>>>> driver >>>>>>>>>>>>> support is going to cause them support headaches all day >>>>>>>>>>>>> long. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --Bob >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 4:38 AM, joshua simmons >>>>>>> <simmons...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually to be h... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the >> list >>>>>>>>> archives, >>>>>>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://list... >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the >>>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>> archives, >>>>>>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the >>>>>>>>>>>> list >>>>>>> archives, >>>>>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>>>>>>>> Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2945 - Release >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: >>>>>>>>> 06/18/10 >>>>>>>>>>>> 04:35:00 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> archives, >>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>> archives, >>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bucky >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>> archives, >>>>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>> archives, >>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> archives, >>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> archives, >>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> archives, >>>>>>> please visit: >>>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >>>> please visit: >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >>>> please visit: >>>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Bucky >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>> archives, >>>> please visit: >>>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>> archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>>> >>>> . >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>> archives, >>> please visit: >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >>> >>> >> >> >> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2952 - Release Date: >>> 06/21/10 >>> 04:36:00 >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, >> please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders >> >> > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
