As a user on FP pointed out, it also culls backfacing points so all advanced shading is pointless, and shadows are impossible without re-rendering the entire scene.
On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 11:56 PM, Bob Somers <magicbob...@gmail.com> wrote: > Same as Adam. The videos dumb it down too much. As far as I'm > concerned, it's vaporware until the SIGGRAPH paper. > > --Bob > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 2:38 AM, Adam Buckland <adamjbuckl...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > I still take this "unlimited detail" company with a pinch of salt. > > I'll believe it when they publish a paper at SIGGRAPH and show a > > real-time working demo. > > > > On 20 June 2010 08:18, Adam "amckern" McKern <amck...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Yeah Unity 3d > >> > >> But point mapping is still a rather good idea > >> > >> -------- > >> Owner Nigredo Studios http://www.nigredostudios.com > >> > >> --- On Sun, 20/6/10, kostiak <kkapl...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> From: kostiak <kkapl...@gmail.com> > >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! > >> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < > hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > >> Received: Sunday, 20 June, 2010, 4:36 PM > >> > >> Maybe you mean http://unity3d.com/ > >> > >> On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Adam "amckern" McKern < > amck...@yahoo.com>wrote: > >> > >>> I have seen that type of engine used before with a mac demo engine - > >>> nothing new - it was called something like Infinity 3d - all i can find > on > >>> the web is some Russian flash game engine. > >>> > >>> -------- > >>> Owner Nigredo Studios http://www.nigredostudios.com > >>> > >>> --- On Sun, 20/6/10, Christopher Harris <char...@resrchnet.com> wrote: > >>> > >>> From: Christopher Harris <char...@resrchnet.com> > >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! > >>> To: "'Discussion of Half-Life Programming'" < > >>> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > >>> Received: Sunday, 20 June, 2010, 12:33 PM > >>> > >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXJUGLiZkV0 > >>> http://unlimiteddetailtechnology.com/pictures.html > >>> > >>> There is also possibility to render point cloud data instead. This > company > >>> has an algorithm to select points to renders so that you have a 1 to 1 > >>> point > >>> to pixel ratio. > >>> > >>> Chris > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > >>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Justin > Krenz > >>> Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 4:49 PM > >>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming > >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! > >>> > >>> I believe he was referring to your claim about voxels being the first > >>> thing used in 3d. Vector graphics (lines/edges) were the first things > >>> used in 3d with games like Battlezone and Star Wars at the arcades.. > >>> > >>> If you think voxels are so great, what did you think about Kevin > >>> Silverman's voxlap engine? http://voxelstein3d.sourceforge.net/ > >>> > >>> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Joel R. <joelru...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> > Please enlighten me then, Marek. Voxels can be better the smaller > they > >>> are, > >>> > and in a few years will be better suited when we have more powerful > >>> > computers. Many are still struggling to even play TF2 with their > current > >>> > machines. So yes, I'm retarded because I thought ahead of your small > >>> mind. > >>> > > >>> > On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Adam Buckland > >>> <adamjbuckl...@gmail.com>wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> That's the plan. He's hoping to do something similar to id tech 5's > >>> >> megatexture technology for geometry. It's called sparse voxel octree > >>> >> technology > >>> >> > >>> >> Basically(from what I understand), the idea is to make the voxels > very > >>> >> very small to allow for high fidelity, but to only load the depth of > >>> >> the octree that could be seen at the current resolution, therefore > >>> >> allowing for incredibly detailed models, that only stream the small > >>> >> details if they could be seen at the current resolution. This is a > big > >>> >> step up from LOD where the programmer basically has to guess where > to > >>> >> swap the models out (and they need to be separate models) > >>> >> > >>> >> On 18 June 2010 18:42, Harry Jeffery < > harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >> > I believe John Carmack is hoping to use voxels in id Tech 6. That > >>> >> > engine's only 10 years away so who knows, this could be the future > but > >>> >> > we wont find out until we get there. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > On 18 June 2010 17:26, Harry Pidcock <haz...@tpg.com.au> wrote: > >>> >> >> Ray traced polygon rendering is quite an expensive task on a CPU. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> But real time point cloud rendering can be done on it quite well. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-ATtrImCx4 > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Yes its a bit cheesy, but that's because Bruce Dell doesn't have > a > >>> >> marketing > >>> >> >> budget. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> This video is rendered in real time on a single core CPU, > although it > >>> is > >>> >> >> only rendering at like 800x600, > >>> >> >> if the algorithm had some parallelism, maybe even have it > developed > >>> for > >>> >> >> GPUs/hardware specialization. Then it would certainly be > >>> >> >> able to render large amounts of detail at a higher resolution. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Although it doesn't have any advanced shading, it is still quite > >>> >> interesting > >>> >> >> to see such a complex static environment drawn with a single CPU > >>> thread. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> Of course there are huge computational and memory issues with > bone > >>> >> >> animation, shading, transparency etc. So don't think you will see > >>> this > >>> >> in > >>> >> >> the next 5 - 10years. > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- > >>> >> >> From: "Jonathan Murphy" <nuclearfri...@gmail.com> > >>> >> >> Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 12:31 AM > >>> >> >> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < > >>> >> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> Katrina, you might be interested in reading up on Real Time > >>> >> >>> Raytracing, which is an alternative to rasterisation (GPU) based > >>> >> >>> rendering and is/has been extensively researched and even > >>> implemented. > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_tracing_(graphics)< > >>> http://en.m.wikipedia. > >>> org/wiki/Ray_tracing_%28graphics%29> > >>> >> >>> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_Wars:_Ray_Traced > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> At the moment though it seems GPUs are going to stay very > >>> mainstream. > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> On Saturday, June 19, 2010, joshua simmons < > simmons...@gmail.com> > >>> >> wrote: > >>> >> >>>> Oh yeah I understand. There is only very rudmentry 3d support, > in > >>> no > >>> >> way > >>> >> >>>> capable of supporting any game. My point was more on the > radical > >>> rate > >>> >> at > >>> >> >>>> which they are evolving in comparison. Even the purely reverse > >>> >> engineered > >>> >> >>>> open source NVIDIA driver is out doing the proprietary one in > terms > >>> of > >>> >> >>>> 2d. > >>> >> >>>> Now I of course realise there is a big jump from that to > capable > >>> 3d, > >>> >> but > >>> >> >>>> considering (iirc) amd have developers working on the open > source > >>> >> driver, > >>> >> >>>> I > >>> >> >>>> see it as mainly a matter of time before it becomes a viable > >>> >> alternative. > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> On 18 Jun 2010 22:01, "Bob Somers" <magicbob...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> Katrina, I'm not giving lectures on computer graphics here. > Google > >>> has > >>> >> >>>> all the information you asked for. If you'd like, I can also > >>> recommend > >>> >> >>>> some graphics textbooks which would clear things up. Also, > saying a > >>> >> >>>> Linux system running on a 100 MHz machine is comparable to > Windows > >>> >> >>>> running on a 2 GHz machine is a ridiculous overstatement. They > are > >>> not > >>> >> >>>> that radically different. If you're so convinced you can make > the > >>> >> >>>> words best software renderer, by all means go do it. I'm sure > at > >>> the > >>> >> >>>> very least you can wave your SIGGRAPH paper in our faces when > >>> you're > >>> >> >>>> done. > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> Josh, I'm not sure you can call it better Linux support if > their 3D > >>> >> >>>> support is... well... really bad. They may have opened up their > >>> >> >>>> hardware spec so that the free drivers can get rolling (I have > >>> tried > >>> >> >>>> the new drivers in Fedora 13 and they are quite good so far), > but > >>> the > >>> >> >>>> free drivers are at least a year behind their Windows > counterpart > >>> in > >>> >> >>>> terms of supporting the full features of the cards. There is > >>> virtually > >>> >> >>>> zero shader support in the free drivers at this point. nVidia's > >>> >> >>>> drivers, on the other hand, may be proprietary, but at least > you > >>> can > >>> >> >>>> get decent 3D performance out of the machine on a current > distro. > >>> The > >>> >> >>>> proprietary ATI driver has decent support and performance, but > it > >>> >> >>>> won't run on anything newer than Fedora 11. (Sorry if I keep > >>> >> >>>> referencing things in terms of Fedora versions, it's my distro > of > >>> >> >>>> choice.) > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> I'm all for free software, don't get me wrong. I would love for > >>> >> >>>> nothing more than to have free alternative drivers for ATI and > >>> nVidia > >>> >> >>>> cards, but if gaming is really going to be commercially viable > on > >>> the > >>> >> >>>> Linux desktop it's the performance that matters. No publisher > is > >>> going > >>> >> >>>> to bother trying to ship a game for Linux where the poor driver > >>> >> >>>> support is going to cause them support headaches all day long. > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> --Bob > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 4:38 AM, joshua simmons > >>> <simmons...@gmail.com > >>> >> > > >>> >> >>>> wrote: > >>> >> >>>>> Actually to be h... > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>> >> archives, > >>> >> >>>> please visit: > >>> >> >>>>> http://list... > >>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>> archives, > >>> >> >>>> please visit: > >>> >> >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>> archives, > >>> >> >>> please visit: > >>> >> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >>> >> >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>> >> >>> Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2945 - Release Date: > >>> >> 06/18/10 > >>> >> >>> 04:35:00 > >>> >> >>> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>> archives, > >>> >> please visit: > >>> >> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>> >> >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> > > >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > >>> >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>> >> please visit: > >>> >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> -- > >>> >> > >>> >> Bucky > >>> >> > >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>> >> please visit: > >>> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Bucky > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > . _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
