James, You're asking (or supporting a notion) for Valve to deploy an anti-cheat tool which would only be useful on vanilla servers and no other.
When since day dot, server operators have simply been asking for a tool which would make the files consistent between the server and the client, no matter what the content of the files are. It is technically possible for a server to check that the clients files are the same, even if those files are custom files. So why are you asking for something which is only capable of checking Steam files, when it's possible for the server to check any and all files that the server operator wants checking? Cheers. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Gray Sent: 30 April 2007 21:29 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request Chris, seriously, what do you have stuck up your ass. You're complaining about something that only betters the community and provides a more level playing field. This update has no relation to 'vanilla' servers, so I don't know why you keep referring to that idea. The overall goal for the pure server mode is to give game server administrators the option to enforce a consistent playing field for all players. On 4/30/07, Whisper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Its just so simple > > All those idiots at Valve should have done this years ago in HL1 !!! > > Truly!! > > On 5/2/07, Chris Barnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Please can you give us a date for that update. There was one like that > > ages > > ago, but it won't check the vmt files. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of NaughtyGeek > > Sent: 30 April 2007 14:28 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request > > > > I'm quite certain that you can set it to check against server content, > > source content or nothing at all. > > > > > > "Server can now force the client to match the server's files." > > > > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > > From: "Chris Barnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > OK, 5% was a bit generous. How about 1% then? > > > > > > Or would you like to "educate" me as to how many servers out there are > > pure > > > vanilla? Because if you take away the match servers it's next to > > nothing. > > > > > > Again, we have the vanilla fans attacking the plugin community, using > > the > > > old "But surely we have to protect ourselves against cheaters" line. > > > > > > Bullshit. > > > > > > It's easy for them (VALVe) to code for the client to be consistent with > > the > > > server. Hell it was done before, but like everything else useful written > > by > > > the independent plugin community, it was broken with a Valve update - > > which > > > no one minds, if only VALVe would listen to the community and run a > > freakin > > > beta program. > > > > > > So why the talk around here of a pure mode which only checks for > > consistency > > > of Valve content? > > > > > > I'll tell why. > > > > > > Because a very small number of people, want a world where only server > > > operators running vanilla Source, to be able to keep out the cheaters, > > > leaving all the custom servers questionable, so that the only the > > vanilla > > > servers get packed out each night. > > > > > > If you really want to stop the cheaters and you want a pure gaming > > > experience at the expense of functionality then just disconnect yourself > > > from the internet and play either your friends on a LAN or some bots. > > > > > > Cheers. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: 30 April 2007 13:44 > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request > > > > > > -- > > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > > 5% ??? > > > > > > Why do the consistency check at all? hmmm...maybe because of all the > > > hackers out there? > > > Maybe because of online leagues, cpl, and other lans that people go to > > and > > > want to compete fairly? > > > I agree that special mods and plugins help break up the boredom from > > time > > to > > > time with the vanilla package. > > > And it seems to me that valve is willing to work around some of those > > > although it does mean a bit of work and thought for server operators. > > > But please...educate yourself on the community before you throw out > > baseless > > > random statistics. > > > > > > If you don't like the pure mod being offered...turn it off maybe and > > don't > > > worry about it. > > > Unless you are worried about the 5% of gamers that won't come to your > > server > > > anymore... > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > > From: Chris Barnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: [email protected] > > > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 7:13:17 AM > > > Subject: RE: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request > > > > > > If it's to only enforce the original resources provided by Steam and not > > the > > > server operator, then it's a complete and utter total waste of time > > then, > > > unless you are one of those very, very vocal 5%ers, who are trying to > > force > > > the vanilla game on the rest of us of course...(I don't believe you are > > by > > > the way). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roman Hatsiev > > > Sent: 28 April 2007 07:19 > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request > > > > > > I think that the idea behind pure server mode is to force the > > > consistency of original resources delivered via Steam, not to prevent > > > people from using custom maps. > > > > > > On 28/04/07, Chris Barnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > If you want a pure server, don't install anything on top. > > > > > > > > There is no need for Valve to do anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keeper > > > > Sent: 27 April 2007 15:54 > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: RE: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request > > > > > > > > Quoted from the whitelist: > > > > > > > > // > > > > // Three types of file specifications: > > > > // > > > > // 1. directory\*.* - refers to all files under the > > directory > > > > // 2. directory\... - refers to all files under the > > directory > > > > and all directories under that (recursively) > > > > // 3. directory\filename - refers to a single file > > > > > > > > Best way and easiest would be to do the second one. > > > > > > > > Like they show: > > > > > > > > // > > > > // By default, when in pure server mode, most content file types are > > > only > > > > allowed to come from Steam. > > > > // > > > > materials\... from_steam > > > > models\... from_steam > > > > sounds\... from_steam > > > > scripts\... from_steam > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Will > > > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:23 AM > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request > > > > > > > > could you be so kind to point out how that could be done without > > listing > > > the > > > > 8,837 files in 273 folders in a whitelist? > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[email protected]> > > > > Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 9:27 AM > > > > Subject: hlds digest, Vol 1 #5351 - 2 msgs > > > > > > > > > > > > > Send hlds mailing list submissions to > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > > > > than "Re: Contents of hlds digest..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > > > > > > > 1. Pure Server Mode Question / Request (Will) > > > > > 2. Re: Pure Server Mode Question / Request (Wim Barelds) > > > > > > > > > > --__--__-- > > > > > > > > > > Message: 1 > > > > > From: "Will" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > To: <[email protected]> > > > > > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:59:24 -0400 > > > > > Subject: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request > > > > > Reply-To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > We want to lock all default game content to use only steam files, > > > > > everything > > > > > no "replacement" allowed at all for default game content. > > > > > We run servers that plays many default maps but also many custom > > maps, > > > we > > > > > want to allow files from disk only for custom maps with the crc > > checks > > > as > > > > > there will be no steam files for these. Will this be possible or are > > we > > > > > left > > > > > out of all this by running custom maps? > > > > > > > > > > Can there be a var for all default content from Steam but allow > > files > > > from > > > > > disk with crc for content that was not delivered from Steam? > > > > > if in steam use steam if not use from disk and crc > > > > > > > > > > Looking at the whitelist I don't see a way to do this without adding > > all > > > > > the > > > > > files for 150 custom maps file by file to the whitelist, many custom > > map > > > > > files do not path to /custommapname/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also a viewable var for this"? > > > > > I would think many league and community type servers would want to > > run > > > in > > > > > such a mode, with a viewable var so it can be checked by players in > > game > > > > > or > > > > > hlsw. > > > > > I think the viewable vars is important to remove suspicion. > > > > > sv_pure 0/1/2 > > > > > say 2 for default = use whitelist > > > > > say 1 From Steam only for all default files and > > > allow_from_disk+check_crc > > > > > for any non steam content > > > > > 0 off > > > > > > > > > > I recall awhile back you saying you were going to look into removing > > > some > > > > > unneeded vars from the server query, can you please make room in the > > > > > server > > > > > query for vars from plugins by removing some like: > > > > > r_VehicleViewDampen > > > > > r_JeepViewDampenFreq > > > > > r_JeepViewDampenDamp > > > > > r_JeepViewZHeight > > > > > r_AirboatViewDampenFreq > > > > > r_AirboatViewDampenDamp > > > > > r_AirboatViewZHeight > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --__--__-- > > > > > > > > > > Message: 2 > > > > > Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:28:25 +0200 > > > > > From: "Wim Barelds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Pure Server Mode Question / Request > > > > > Reply-To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > > > > You should be able to do most of what you want simply by modifying > > the > > > > > whitelist. > > > > > > > > > > On 4/27/07, Will <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> We want to lock all default game content to use only steam files, > > > > >> everything > > > > >> no "replacement" allowed at all for default game content. > > > > >> We run servers that plays many default maps but also many custom > > maps, > > > we > > > > >> want to allow files from disk only for custom maps with the crc > > checks > > > as > > > > >> there will be no steam files for these. Will this be possible or > > are > > we > > > > >> left > > > > >> out of all this by running custom maps? > > > > >> > > > > >> Can there be a var for all default content from Steam but allow > > files > > > > >> from > > > > >> disk with crc for content that was not delivered from Steam? > > > > >> if in steam use steam if not use from disk and crc > > > > >> > > > > >> Looking at the whitelist I don't see a way to do this without > > adding > > > all > > > > >> the > > > > >> files for 150 custom maps file by file to the whitelist, many > > custom > > > map > > > > >> files do not path to /custommapname/ > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Also a viewable var for this"? > > > > >> I would think many league and community type servers would want to > > run > > > in > > > > >> such a mode, with a viewable var so it can be checked by players in > > > game > > > > >> or > > > > >> hlsw. > > > > >> I think the viewable vars is important to remove suspicion. > > > > >> sv_pure 0/1/2 > > > > >> say 2 for default = use whitelist > > > > >> say 1 From Steam only for all default files and > > > allow_from_disk+check_crc > > > > >> for any non steam content > > > > >> 0 off > > > > >> > > > > >> I recall awhile back you saying you were going to look into > > removing > > > some > > > > >> unneeded vars from the server query, can you please make room in > > the > > > > >> server > > > > >> query for vars from plugins by removing some like: > > > > >> r_VehicleViewDampen > > > > >> r_JeepViewDampenFreq > > > > >> r_JeepViewDampenDamp > > > > >> r_JeepViewZHeight > > > > >> r_AirboatViewDampenFreq > > > > >> r_AirboatViewDampenDamp > > > > >> r_AirboatViewZHeight > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Thank you > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > > > >> please visit: > > > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > ___________________________ > > > > > Wim 'TheUnknownFactor' Barelds > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --__--__-- > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > > > > please visit: > > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > End of hlds Digest > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > > please visit: > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > > please visit: > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please > > > visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: 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