"I'm not pushing my beliefs or tactics on anyone" Really?
"Achievement Farmers: Be Warned! Server admins are fighting back! You can help STOP achievement farming! Until Valve can find a way to stop those who belittle the meaning and purpose of Achievement and Unlockables, you can do something to stop them! Achievement farming ruins the integrity, the purpose, of achievements. The word achievement doesn't mean "dick around in a map for 45 minutes and earn unlockables", and since Valve has yet to take a step towards stopping those who belittle the work and dedication of others, I have. Download the SourceMod plugin here. Take Back Team Fortress! These are known achievement farmers! Ban them NOW!" You admit that joining the server running that map isn't wrong, yet you don't realize that some people will join and inadvertently earn an achievement? You don't realize that by setting the threshold of "wrong" to "earning an achievement on an achievement server" your honeypot is functioning just as any other achievement server? You claim over 2000 bans. I say you've aided and abetted in the farming of over 2000 achievements. You're a tool. > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 18:17:32 -0500 > Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot > > I wait for people to earn achievements before having them banned, > because you're right, joining the map isn't doing anything wrong. > Earning achievements on an achievement farming map on the other hand... > > I don't understand your comment about fake clients. My opinion of that > is well known and I anxiously await the patch which will rid the world > of fake clients. > > I'm not pushing my beliefs or tactics on anyone, and I'm not trying to > force anyone to setup a honeypot server. If people want to follow my > lead though, I am giving everyone the tools necessary to do so. And yes, > I think every single 2100+ and counting people deserve to be banned. > They cheated the system. > > Once again, if you want to continue this, I am on IRC and am happy to > argue there. I'll go ahead and copy this over to AlliedModders since you > want to bring it there too. > > > On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 15:05 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > Your honeypot is more about you feeling like you have control than it is > > about bettering the community or "taking a stand". > > > > I am not missing the point of a honeypot. I am a degree-wielding computer > > scientist, I know full well what a honeypot is. > > I also know that actual honeypots are looked down upon in the security > > sector and are pretty much useless (legally) when it comes to actually > > following through and taking action. They are a useful approach in terms > > of improving security (through statistical research), but since you're not > > Valve you're not really going to improve the core problem, are you? > > > > It's obvious you haven't thought things through. > > You state (I believe it was in your A-M thread) that the only reason people > > join servers running achievement maps is to farm. > > > > This is an incorrect assumption, but, even taking it to be true: > > > > -Why wait for people to earn an achievement before banning them? Just ban > > them on join. > > --The answer is because you want it to be full so you can get more to join > > and thus ban more. > > > > -So why not just report false clients? Perhaps Dan from Circle-X can help > > you out. He posts here. Though he still maintains that their servers are > > vanilla and absolutely don't report fake clients have fast respawns or > > shuffle you off to other servers. > > --The answer is because you actually want to toy with people and then deny > > them things. You enjoy wielding your power, and you will do so arbitrarily > > and with an inflated sense of self-righteousness. You are the worst kind > > of admin. You are as much of a problem to TF2 as the farmers, griefers, > > and exploiters. > > > > As to why your assumption is incorrect: > > > > Many people will simply join an achievement box to meet up with friends > > (right click friend, view game info, join!). > > Many people will simply join a server based on ping and player count, and > > not the map. > > Many people will not know what an achievement box map is, or that is > > considered a bad thing. > > > > If your argument is that people should know better, then I'd like to ask > > you about all the NEW players that will be playing TF2. If a free weekend > > is upon us, then there will be a lot of new players. Should someone be > > banned from your servers just because they joined your honeypot? Should > > they be banned from other servers who have picked up your list? > > > > Apparently you think it is an acceptable price to pay for maintaining what > > you think is a desirable decorum and behavior among your players. That's > > fine. What's not fine is you trying to push your beliefs on others, or you > > calling these people cheaters, detrimental, or other such things for having > > a differing opinion about how to play a game. If you had your way, those > > players would be banned from TF2 entirely. You are actively trying to > > spread your list of over 2000 bans. Do you really think that all those > > people deserve to be banned? (Yes, you do: "These are known achievement > > farmers! Ban them NOW!") > > > > What you claim is dubious. Your intentions are not noble. Your methods > > are detrimental to TF2 as a whole. > > I will be looking for and joining your honeypot, then earning some > > achievement, so I never have to deal with your servers. > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > To: [email protected] > > > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:45:10 -0500 > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot > > > > > > I'm doing this because somebody needs to take a stand. People are numb > > > to the cheating, and nothing will every change when everyone is being > > > complacent about it. > > > > > > Lastly, you are missing the point of a honeypot. Look up the definition: > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_(computing) > > > > > > The entire purpose of this is to make it looks like any other > > > achievement server, to make farmers feel "safe" by joining it. > > > > > > I'm not going to respond to the personal attacks. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 13:35 -0800, Blood Letter wrote: > > > > If your server is full, and people are earning achievements then being > > > > banned from YOUR servers, you're being a hypocritical, selfish ass. > > > > > > > > You're running an achievement server that DOES let people farm > > > > achievements - they get one (maybe 2 or 3 depending on delay / > > > > simultaneous achievements) achievement (and probably progress towards > > > > others) before being banned. > > > > > > > > You claim your server is full, so it's turning out just as many > > > > achievements as other full achievement farming servers (maybe a little > > > > less due to overhead - since they have to go find another server > > > > afterward, etc.). > > > > > > > > You're banning these people from YOUR servers. You do provide a public > > > > list, but your list is NOT authoritative and I (and many other admins) > > > > would be hesitant to just import a list of 2000 bans. The vast > > > > majority of servers will NOT benefit from this list because most will > > > > never be aware of the list, let alone be able to import it easily (most > > > > servers are NOT running sourcebans/sourcemod with sql/etc.). > > > > > > > > You're playing vigilante because you think the game should be a certain > > > > way. That's fine, but you won't get much support for your "cause", > > > > especially with the way you are doing things. Simply setting up > > > > another server (instead of the honeypot) would be a far more beneficial > > > > to the TF2 community as a whole. > > > > > > > > The fact is there are a LOT of player who prefer to farm or unlock than > > > > to grind for achievements. > > > > I for one absolutely hate achievements, gamer cards, trophies, and > > > > whatever other crap is added to games to make them longer, force > > > > grinding, or promote social/web 2.0/e-peen crap. The mere fact that a > > > > GAME is intentionally turned into a chore to keep players playing is a > > > > slap in the face. It works though, because people feel they need that > > > > epic mount, that extra costume for Chun-Li, and the Ubersaw. > > > > > > > > It's a difference in opinion. You hate farmers, I don't care how > > > > people enjoy their game. You imposing your view of the game on your > > > > servers is fine, but I hope you realize that you're providing an > > > > achievement server which has let thousands of achievements be farmed, > > > > and that those farmers (who you claim to despise, hypocrite) are then > > > > set loose on the rest of the TF2 community (ass), while you and your > > > > servers are walled off from them (selfish). > > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:07:22 -0500 > > > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Achievement Farmer Honeypot > > > > > > > > > > My server has been full since the moment I set it up. There is a delay > > > > > between achievement earned and banning, so the farmers don't know what > > > > > is going on. My server looks 100% like any other farming server. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 22:01 +0100, Bengt Rosenberger wrote: > > > > > > Great, I gonna install that on my 24/7 achievement farming > > > > > > server... Or > > > > > > wait... No, I won't. > > > > > > Have fun with an empty server. > > > > > > > > > > > > Stuff like this encourages me to open up another farming server... > > > > > > > > > > > > msleeper schrieb: > > > > > > > I have written a honeypot plugin for SourceMod that will autoban > > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > who earns an achievement in the server. If there is any other > > > > > > > admins out > > > > > > > there who think that complacency towards farming needs to end, > > > > > > > this is > > > > > > > step one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have been running this since the moment the Scout update came > > > > > > > out last > > > > > > > night and, at time of writing this, 1890 farmers have been caught > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > stopped. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The plugin is here: > > > > > > > http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=86402 > > > > > > > My publicly available list of farmers is here: > > > > > > > http://www.msleeper.com/tf2-achievement-farmers.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm really not interested in mucking up the list with personal > > > > > > > opinions > > > > > > > about whether or not farming is right, or honeypotting farmers is > > > > > > > wrong, > > > > > > > but if you want to discuss you can always join IRC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from my honeypot > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > > > > > archives, please visit: > > > > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > > > > archives, please visit: > > > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > > > archives, please visit: > > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Windows Live™ Hotmail®:…more than just e-mail. > > > > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_022009 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > > please visit: > > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Windows Live™ Hotmail®:…more than just e-mail. > > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_022009 > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _________________________________________________________________ It’s the same Hotmail®. 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