"it could be used for good, but it can also easily be used to derail server communities and eliminate competition."
I agree. However, the blacklist feature is there. So why not start a legitimate centralized blacklist that has some oversight before we start seeing malicious blacklists that just blacklist competitors. If people trust the clowns over legitimate blacklists, then that's their problem. But if the only choice they have is clowns, they might go with clowns. I run servers too you know, so this is something I care about. I wouldn't want to be blacklisted just like any other server operator here. But I think malicious servers (fake players being the primary offender) should be blacklisted. - voogru. -----Original Message----- From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Shizzle Nizzle Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:54 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available in reality the blacklist won't do much unless valve starts publicly enforcing which servers are blacklisted for everyone. i doubt most veteran players for tf2 even use the master server list to grab servers, most have their selected servers already whether it be in their favorites or in their history tab. its really only meant for new people to tf2 and frankly is a year or two too late now :) but i have to agree the import feature is not exactly the brightest idea. i really don't trust other people's banlist, let alone giving someone else the control of what servers to remove from your server browser. it could be used for good, but it can also easily be used to derail server communities and eliminate competition. On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Nightbox <alexandrualexa...@gmail.com>wrote: > http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ > > 2010/1/7 Shane Arnold <clontar...@iinet.net.au> > > > But *you* are not *everyone*. It only takes one malicious/incorrect > > entry to start screwing things up. > > > > On 7/01/2010 10:42 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: > > > If you have a centralized blacklist that people trust, maintain it and > > > verify submitted servers to prevent abuse, I think it's better than not > > > having a blacklist at all. > > > > > > This is also why I would only blacklist malicious servers, it's not too > > > difficult to verify malicious servers. > > > > > > - voogru. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > > > [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Don Williams > > > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 9:33 AM > > > To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available > > > > > > That's the damn truth.. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > > > [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Peter Powell > > > Sent: 2010-01-07 9:12 AM > > > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available > > > > > > The issue with allowing people to import blocklists is that they will > > > rush on Google and use the first blocklist they find. That blocklist > > > will most likely be full of servers that $RANDOM_LUSER added to get > back > > > at $SERVER_OWNER for banning them for mic spamming. > > > > > > ~Peter Powell > > > > > > Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: > > > > > >> Yeah I saw that, but generally I support the idea of a centralized > > >> blacklist. > > >> > > >> But only with really malicious servers. > > >> > > >> - voogru. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > > >> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of > > DontWannaName! > > >> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:36 PM > > >> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > > >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available > > >> > > >> Hey look Voogru, you are on that list too for running 24+ max slots > lol > > :P > > >> 24+ max players is part of the game now so that makes little sense... > > >> > > >> 67.213.213.107voogru.com24+ Max Players > > >> > > >> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Matt Hoffman > > >> <lord.matt.hoff...@gmail.com>wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> There's already http://tf2app.com/blacklist/ which is an active > list. > > I > > >>> believe it is designed for Peer Guardian/Peer Block/etc, so I second > > the > > >>> option to import IP's and not have it be formatted. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald< > > >>> voo...@voogru.com> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> The issue with the fake "bot" pings would probably have become more > of > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >> an > > >> > > >> > > >>>> issue now that bots are becoming more available. Malicious server > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> operators > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> could disguise the valve tf2 bots as real players. > > >>>> > > >>>> Combine that with fake players in queries and you have one more > > problem > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> to > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> deal with. > > >>>> > > >>>> I've seen some of these servers actually disable the status command > so > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> you > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> can't see their "BOT" steamids as well. > > >>>> > > >>>> With the creation of blacklists hopefully some people come up with a > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> decent > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> blacklist. I would have liked to see the blacklist option be able to > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> import > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> IP's from a website (even if it's just a txt file on the website) > like > > >>>> PeerGuardian, perhaps it can be in a future update. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> -voogru > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>> From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > > >>>> [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of > Dislexsick > > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 6:44 PM > > >>>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > > >>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available > > >>>> > > >>>> The update states it is people changing the word BOT in the ping > > column > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> on > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> the scoreboard... > > >>>> > > >>>> This does not address fake player counts, a far more widespread and > > >>>> malicious tactic imo. > > >>>> > > >>>> Cheers, > > >>>> > > >>>> Joshua Bost > > >>>> > > >>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>> From: Andy C<grossk...@flotgaming.net> > > >>>> Sent: Thursday, 7 January 2010 09:37 > > >>>> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > > >>>> <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [hlds] Team Fortress 2 Update Available > > >>>> > > >>>> The bot issue you are refering to has to do with server admins > running > > >>>> "fake > > >>>> clients" plugins. These report more players in the server than there > > >>>> actually is. Apparently Valve has come up with bots that actually > play > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> the > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> game, just like in L4D/L4D2. > > >>>> > > >>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Josh Bost<dislexs...@dislexsick.com > > > > >>>> wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> "Tuned scoreboard logic to guard against malicious server operators > > >>>>> spoofing > > >>>>> bot pings to hide the "BOT" tag." > > >>>>> > > >>>>> As a follower of the SPUF I have seen threads about servers with > bots > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> with > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> simulated pings, one just yesterday, in-fact. After reading this, > > >>>>> the consensus seemed to be that although some people felt 'ripped > > off' > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> it > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>> made a better experience for a few people. After reading about it > I > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> was > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>> curious, so I done a quick google search and sure enough there was > a > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> single > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> plugin with something like 3 replies on the alliedmods forums. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I don't really understand - Clearly this was not a completely > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> widespread > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>> issue, and calling the server owners malicious is a little bit > wrong > > I > > >>>>> think. Personally, I wouldn't mind a server with a few bots as > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >> hosting > > >> > > >> > > >>> a > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>> server locally, even with a fairly beefy CPU (Core2 Q9550) my game > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> grinds > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> to a screeching halt with 15 bots (9fps ftw). > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Anyway, since this is a controversial topic I realize this is not > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >> going > > >> > > >> > > >>>> to > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> change, as it is for 'the better of the community' but really, I > > still > > >>>>> think > > >>>>> people are going to find a way around; I also think Valve would > have > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>> been > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>> better off spending their time fixing a *real* problem, such as > fake > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> client > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> counts - after all bots still contribute to the game. > > >>>>> (For the record I don't even host a TF2 server [I used to help run > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >> one, > > >> > > >> > > >>>> now > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>> I have a L4D2 server], so my points are not coming from a bias pov) > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Cheers, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Josh Bost > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Jason Ruymen< > > jas...@valvesoftware.com > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> A required update for Team Fortress 2 is now available. Please > run > > >>>>>> hldsupdatetool to receive the update. The specific change > include: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Server Browser (for TF2 and DoD:S) > > >>>>>> - Added a client-side server blacklist: > > >>>>>> - Supports blacklisting of specific servers, all servers on > an > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> IP, > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>> and > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> all servers on a class C range. > > >>>>>> - Saves the server list to a file, and has an Import button > to > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>> allow > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>>> easy sharing (cfg\server_blacklist.txt) > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Balance changes: > > >>>>>> - Reduced the health penalty on The Sandman. > > >>>>>> - The Force-A-Nature knockback on target now: > > >>>>>> - Only applies to hits that deal more than 30 damage and > are > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >> in > > >> > > >> > > >>>>> close > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> range. > > >>>>>> - Factors in the firer's angle of attack when determining > the > > >>>>>> knockback direction. > > >>>>>> - Has less of an effect on grounded targets. > > >>>>>> - The Dead Ringer now: > > >>>>>> - Reduces cloak to 40% when uncloaking early. > > >>>>>> - Has a 35% cap on the amount of cloak it can gain from an > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >> ammo > > >> > > >> > > >>>>> pack. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> - Has a quieter de-cloak sound. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Changes / Fixes: > > >>>>>> - Fixed a performance& stability issue with AMD processors. > > >>>>>> - Improved the stability of the game server -> item backend > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>> connection > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>>> please visit: > > >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>>> please visit: > > >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > >>> please visit: > > >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > >> please visit: > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > >> > > > please visit: > > > > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
