I'm sorry for rebumping this thread, but I feel it needs to be balanced in case anyone from Valve decides to take it seriously.
Does anyone else not find it strange that people are making tens of thousands a month off the Steam Workshop and no one is saying how greedy they are? Where is the righteous indignation that they should be submitting their models for free to fpsbanana and rely solely on donations? Running a successful server is much more work than creating a couple of models. Why is the idea of a server owner making the equivalent of a Starbucks per day even causing discussions of greed? Is everyone here a teen or college student where an extra $50 a month is criminally rich? Why are servers owners only allowed to take donations and create a large rift between the donators and non-donators? To the owner of TN and NoHeroes, do not force your own views of morality on us. On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 4:10 AM, E. Olsen <[email protected]> wrote: > I think that everyone has already overlooked the fact that Valve already has > in place the best method possible for weeding out poor servers - the server > score. If a player leaves a server quickly (which I have to think they will > with a bunch of fake clients, etc.) the score will decline over time, > allowing the cream to rise to the top. > > Again - I think the root of the problem here is quickplay itself. > Practically overnight, it has lulled new server operators into thinking that > filling servers is not only easy, but is (for the most part) Valve's > responsibility. It has also led to a rise in the use of fake > clients/illegitimate bots in an attempt to garner as much of that "easy > traffic" as possible. We've seen the effects of this every time there is a > hiccup or small change in the system, as this list lights up with complaints > of "quickplay is not working", or "quickplay no longer fills my servers", > etc. etc. Those complaints are invariably followed by calls for more action > against the bad players. > > Now, I'm all for taking action against the bad guys - the less of them the > better (for the players, that is). My point is, even if Valve were able to > rid the server list of every nefarious operators using these kinds of > cheats, it wouldn't increase most server operator's traffic one bit over > what you are already getting (which, if everyone who has their torch and > pitchfork out would admit, is the motivation behind these debates - everyone > wants the traffic those servers are getting). > > Looking at the other side of this debate, there's something to consider: > > 1. Would you actually WANT a player willing to buy admin right and/or those > premium "pay to win" benefits? I sure as hell wouldn't - that's one step up > from buying a hack, IMO. If they're willing to do that, they're willing to > exploit anything they can to win - no thanks. > > 2. I agree that getting people to donate early on is next to impossible. My > question is, than why would you? We went our first 9 months before accepting > a single dime in donations. Build the value FIRST in your community, and the > donations will come. If your next argument is that donations "dried up", so > I HAD to run ads, I would submit to you that you failed to maintain and > build the value in your community, and adding ads to your MOTD is not adding > to that value, it's simply using random player connections/impressions as a > means of keeping afloat. Will it pay your bills? Maybe...for a time, but > Pinion would not be the first net advertising channel to go under due to > poor sales conversions, and I doubt even the smallest fraction of players > exposed to those ads are in the "buying" frame of mind, and > click-thru/complete a purchase. Over time, Pinion's pool of advertisers may > (IMO) most likely dry up, eliminating that source of revenue. What is your > backup plan then? > > 3. In the end, there is a fix to all this, but most involved in this > conversation won't like it: Do away with quickplay for all but the newest > (i.e. less than 100 playing hours) players. In fact, let's disable the > server browser for new players, and only let them use quickplay until they > reach a certain point (i.e. X number of hours played with each class on X > number of stock maps). Valve could make it something to work towards - no > access to the server browser until you've achieved all the minimum > requirements to teach you the game, etc. Once you've reached that, the > quickplay button goes away, and the server browser button appears. > > Let's get back to making server operators actually work at building regular > server traffic again. None of this nefarious activity was ever an issue > before the quickplay system was turned on, as it really didn't really help > the guys who did it that much. Server operators that went to the enormous > effort of building awesome gaming environments and consistently seeding > their servers (you know, by actually playing on them until they filled up) > were rewarded over time with players that favorited them and came back, over > and over. > > If your community/servers cannot survive without quickplay, you honestly > have to ask yourself if they deserve to. If you rely on random players that > are SENT to you, as opposed to players you ATTRACT, then you are building a > house of cards, plain and simple. > > > > > > > > On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 6:27 AM, Mart-Jan Reeuwijk <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> ?? Never see any ads on YT, oh, wait, I blocked them :) >> >> Same as for in-game adds, MOTD = disabled. No need to "read" them if one >> doesn't: cheat, swear, abuse, grief, etc. And those that do, aren't reading >> it either. They can "plaster" it with ads for all I care. >> >> As for the actual SUBJECT of this topic (its gone way off-topic with the >> ads stuff), I think valve is already moving into the steam login required >> for setting up/running servers. Altho I think they should set it up that >> server owners can make a new steam account, and then request via web-page on >> steam to add server functionality to it (for dedicated servers), after which >> they can set up servers. That those should get linked to the owner's main >> account and the communities steam group(s) should also be nice. Once that is >> in place, a good "hammering" is possible. >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Sampson Rogers <[email protected]> >> >> To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list >> <[email protected]> >> Sent: Saturday, 11 August 2012, 5:46 >> >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Server Delisting, does it need some changes? >> >> I see no harm in servers running a MOTD ad that takes all of 1 click to >> get past with no extra effort. There is absolutely nothing wrong with >> supporting servers by clicking right past something you're not even required >> to view. Look at places like Youtube, they have ads on nearly all of their >> videos you have to wait a few seconds to get past and you can't tell me >> Google needs more money. You can also disable HTML MOTD if you choose, that >> sounds like a fair in between to me. No reason to punish communities that >> provide a good gaming experience but also run ads on the MOTD to keep the >> servers afloat. Nothing wrong with it at all. Other communities shouldn't be >> frowned upon for needing a monetary hand in getting started or maintaining >> their servers as long as they do things the right way, don't exploit their >> users for only a quick buck and properly administrate their servers. >> >> The truth is, it is not always easy to get donations, even when you run a >> solid community, especially starting out. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
