I agree. Is there a forum we could move the discussion to?
On Jun 2, 2014 7:41 AM, "pilger" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
The more you guys discuss the subject between yourselves, the less
likely it is to get a response from Valve. I doubt they'll read
through all this text to reply it somehow.
I agree with what you're saying. But this has been discussed to
exhaustion and nothing productive will come from it any more.
Let's be concise.
_pilger
On 2 June 2014 09:25, Alexander Z <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Valve servers are the safest bet a player has for an normal
TF2 experience with nothing getting in the way. I'm sure there
are many community servers offering a similar experience, but
there are just as many of those which don't.
On 2 June 2014 13:35, Mehtahl MetalMetal <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I'm quite sure that the experience on many more community
servers has
given poorer experience than the number of Valve servers
for any given
region. Take Nightteam for instance, let alone any other
server with
donation perks such as immunity to auto-balance. Not that
Valve
servers don't have their share of teamstacking. It's also
important to
remember that many servers run on a 24/7 same-map rotation
designed
for players to switch to another server when they grow
tired from a
map. That's really inefficient for those with many
different servers
managed that way, as you can see many of them being empty.
In fact,
hundreds of Community servers have been empty before this
quickplay
change, but Valve servers only had a few empty during
high-time.
We could always assume that Community servers are in the
vast majority
of servers, thus also have most of the, completely
subjective concept
of 'poor quality'. We could also assume that new players
want the
actual default experience of the game instead of a very
specific
method of play. When I first started playing I had no idea
which
server to join, with the massive list of servers with
different maps
and tags. I wasn't aware that when I decided to pick a
Lotusclan, that
I would be unaware that I couldn't 'really' pick my team when
autobalance came around, because it most definitely
autobalances more
frequently than Valve servers' system. While I do
understand that's it
intention, to prevent stacking, this feature is definitely
present in
most Community servers with normal maps, greatly limiting
any real
variety. Community servers have only served the community
with custom
maps and gamemode that Valve doesn't host. People come or
came to play
the game, in general. I doubt that anyone new at all cares
about any
particular community or which server to play as long as
they get to
play it.
"AND those of us who didn't try to turn TF2 into a money
machine"
A lot of people seem to think that somehow more hats means
less fun,
and no new weapons or maps in a year means the game is
dead, but TF2
is still one of the most played games on Steam.
On 6/1/14, Alexander Corn <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> I agree entirely with everything that has been said.
>
> Simply put, the player experience on "official" servers
is a joke. The term
> "official server" implies some standard of quality since
after all, it's an
> *official* server.
>
> In reality, the experience is subpar, even borderline
terrible. Valve
> hardware is overloaded to the point of hilarity. If I
didn't get loot from
> Mann Up mode, I wouldn't dream of paying $1 per game for
servers that can't
> keep up with the game. Valve PvP servers aren't much better.
>
> Lack of moderation makes the player experience dreadful
in many cases.
> Cheaters have free reign on Valve servers since even
when a votekick is
> started against them (note that many inexperienced
players do not know how
> to start such votes), they can simply rejoin the server
and continue
> cheating. Even when eventually kicked, they can simply
join another
> "official" server and start over again. Lack of
moderation is to blame.
>
>
> Dr. McKay
> www.doctormckay.com <http://www.doctormckay.com>
>
>
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 5:31 PM, E. Olsen
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>> Let's not go the way of throwing out insults towards
the TF2 team.
>> There's
>> no doubt that - while certainly a mistake - they
initially made the
>> change
>> to get rid of the nefarious server operators that were
both screwing it
>> up
>> for the players AND those of us who didn't try to turn
TF2 into a money
>> machine. I think their hearts were in the right place,
but they simply
>> failed to think the change all the way through.
>>
>> Having said that, I DO hope they take into account that
while a couple
>> dozen people on their SPUF forums might be glad to play
on Vavlve servers
>> only, for every successful legit server operators that
wants this change
>> reversed, we are probably speaking for hundreds if not
thousands of
>> server
>> regulars that will most likely walk away from TF2 soon
if their servers
>> keep getting choked off this way.
>>
>> The fact of the matter is, with the options they added
to the quickplay
>> system, there is no longer any reason for freezing us
out this way. The
>> players that complained the loudest about hating
community servers now
>> have
>> the option to pick the "offiicial servers only" button.
>>
>> With that in mind, why on earth would you keep it as
the "default" option
>> any longer? Why actively eliminate access to diversity,
custom mapping,
>> the
>> replay system (which only community servers support)
and any new
>> community-driven innovation in the game? Why keep a
change that is
>> actually
>> decreasing the skill level and emphasis on teamwork for
a game that was
>> both known for AND built on it?
>>
>> I struggle to find a single upside in allowing official
servers to
>> continue to be the "default" option. The only thing
being accomplished is
>> the utter decimation of diversity and long-term player
retention.
>>
>> Brings us in from the cold, Valve.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Robert Paulson
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Is anyone left at Valve humble enough to admit a
mistake? Not only do
>>> community servers provide more value, but this is also
a massive
>>> betrayal
>>> of what TF2 originally was. When I bought the game, I
did not expect
>>> community servers to be segregated and much more
difficult to find.
>>>
>>> Where is the original TF2 team that was smart enough
not to keep "custom
>>> tabs"?
>>>
>>> Emulating CS:GO and DOTA2's lobby system is not going
to magically make
>>> TF2 more popular. If you are not going to copy their
update speed,
>>> screwing
>>> community servers will make things worse. To the
person behind this
>>> change,
>>> how do you like the drop in players it is causing?
>>>
>>>
>>>
http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=440&from=1383289200000&to=End+Time
>>>
>>> Every day this policy remains in place more servers
that took years of
>>> seeding, prizes, and moderation get killed off, maybe
even permanently
>>> given how old TF2 is.
>>>
>>> Anyone that is interested in seeing something done
about this, you
>>> should
>>> probably also email them directly as there has been no
response here.
>>> http://www.valvesoftware.com/email.php
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Paul
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree. TF2 has dramatically lost my vote since the
changes to
>>>> Quickplay and the lack of response or update from
Valve regarding any
>>>> future changes to it. In my own opinion they seem
quite careless of the
>>>> matter and to those who spent years hosting genuine
servers for little
>>>> to
>>>> nothing in return. It's as if Valve wants the game to
end up eventually
>>>> being a ghost town (which it will if nothing changes).
>>>>
>>>> My own experience on the Valve official servers is
negative, ranging
>>>> from lack of moderation to the connection quality in
comparison with
>>>> similar community servers.
>>>>
>>>> Please, Valve, show us a sign that you really do care
about the future
>>>> of Team Fortress 2 (and other Valve games, because
one bad game will
>>>> most
>>>> likely put newcomers off from trying any other game
title by the same
>>>> company). and make a statement for crying out loud!
Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 30 May 2014 20:54, ics <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I can tell you about the status of community servers
regarding
>>>>> quickplay - it's really sad to see it in the state
as it is now. I lost
>>>>> my
>>>>> interest to TF2 back in january or so due to this
quickplay change and
>>>>> i'm
>>>>> _this close_ to lose my interest completely. I feel
abandoned as a
>>>>> person
>>>>> who rans servers for free and doesn't tease the
players with any crap
>>>>> and
>>>>> propably i'm not alone. I can spend the 152€ a month
to something
>>>>> quite
>>>>> else instead of doing what i do now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Current status has gone from normal to bad. As a
company, it really
>>>>> would suck to lose people like me who have been
around nearly 10
>>>>> years,
>>>>> helping your games to grow by hosting servers and
providing players a
>>>>> place
>>>>> to stay, enjoy the game and on the side have a good
feeling about the
>>>>> thing
>>>>> i do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't prove everyone right that it's better way to
throw money at
>>>>> servers and host everything yourself. Because that
is the way Valve is
>>>>> right now going for, isn't it? It will help on short
term but not for
>>>>> long
>>>>> term, and Valve games tend to have lifespan of years
but i doubht that
>>>>> with
>>>>> current rate there will be too many communities left
if you don't
>>>>> support
>>>>> them in any way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> -ics
>>>>>
>>>>> Jason Tango kirjoitti:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear TF2 team,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would it be possible for you to communicate a
status as to if/when
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> quickplay changes you made four months ago will be
reverted to allow
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> community servers to be included in quickplay again
by default?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fletcher Dunn had stated when this change was made
that it would be
>>>>>> temporary, yet four months later as community
server after community
>>>>>> server
>>>>>> dies out, we've had zero communication on the
subject from the TF2
>>>>>> team.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why are you no longer talking to server operators?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please, guys - communicate to the server community
that has supported
>>>>>> the game for so many years. If this is going to be
the "default"
>>>>>> quickplay
>>>>>> configuration from now on, at least let us know so
we can start
>>>>>> shutting
>>>>>> off servers as opposed to continuing to pay for
hardware in the hopes
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> we'll be treated fairly again. We're hanging on
here and financially
>>>>>> supporting servers in the hopes that we'll be able
to fill them again
>>>>>> someday soon, but if there's no more hope left for
us, at least let us
>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - JT
>>>>>>
>>>>>> P.S. If I could express to you the extreme sense of
hopelessness you
>>>>>> are imposing on the good communities that have
built themselves around
>>>>>> TF2,
>>>>>> I would. We love this game, and we see the
"culture" that so attracted
>>>>>> us
>>>>>> to it for all these years slipping away. Please
consider the harm
>>>>>> you're
>>>>>> doing to the "good" communities out there but
effectively diverting
>>>>>> half of
>>>>>> the player traffic away from even finding us.
Spending years building
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> community only to have the rug pulled out from
under us has depressed
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> of our members so much that they've walked away
from the game all
>>>>>> together.
>>>>>> These are long-term TF2 players who - if they
can't play on the
>>>>>> community
>>>>>> servers they helped build - are not going to play
anymore at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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