“But yeah. The default should be ... well... the default.” The default should show everything. Let players filter them out on their own. If they don’t want to filter and search for a server, I think they have a feature for that already. I think it’s called.. quickplay.
I don’t know if you remember the days of the “Custom” tab. But I do. You could have a completely vanilla gameplay server, with 32 players, and get stuck on the “Custom” tab. If you were on the custom tab, your server saw no traffic, nobody went a tab over to look for ‘Custom” servers. If you pulled the required shenanigans to get put onto the internet tab, your server got plenty of traffic, and everybody that saw the server in the list, knew it was a 32 player because they still reported as 32 players to the players. If the players didn’t want to play there, they’d simply click on another server. Fine. Let them click on a checkbox “Show valve official servers only.” Don’t get me wrong, I see where you are coming from, you want to be able to quickly get onto a server without silly gameplay mods, pay-to-cheat or advertising nonsense going on. On the flip side, segregating custom servers by default, will just be the death of those servers. Don’t forget that the valve servers have problems too, most notably the fact that they are unmoderated. So if you have a player putting hardcore porn sprays, or an engineer that thinks he’s quite the comedian building teleporters that take you further back, or the sniper with aimbot that hasn’t been vac banned yet with his free steam account…you’re kind of stuck with them. - Voogru. From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Phillip Vector Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2015 8:32 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released >I honestly find it comical that people think those servers are a good >representation of what the game should be (or, frankly, are any fun at all). and this is why I rarely post here. Because most people here are not willing to listen to the other side of things and meet in the middle. Insulting people who like the Valve servers is not the way to go if you are wanting to work with Valve to get some compromise going. On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 5:22 PM, E. Olsen <[email protected]> wrote: I also don't think the phrase "Community" and "Custom" are necessarily interchangeable. There are plenty of community servers out there with 100% stock settings, and I certainly wouldn't call them "custom". Further - I don't anyone who played TF2 before quickplay came along can say that Valve's servers are the way the game was "meant to be played". All I've ever seen on a Valve server (aside from all the Mic spam, racism, general harassment, grieifing, hacking, and abuse of the voting tools), was an just about every single player ignoring the "team" aspect of the game - when they were playing at all. I honestly find it comical that people think those servers are a good representation of what the game should be (or, frankly, are any fun at all). On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 8:12 PM, Cats From Above <[email protected]> wrote: What you just said implies that every community server provides a modified game-play experience, which is not only a dubious claim but one that almost certainly stems from a distinct level of benightedness. There are community servers out there, many of them, which offer a vanilla experience in aspects of game-play. My question to you is why should those servers be treated as second-class citizens to Valve servers by "default". On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 9:33 AM, Phillip Vector <[email protected]> wrote: >If we're really talking about player choice, here, then you have to remove the >" <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_effect_(psychology)> default effect" >that gives one group of server preferential treatment over another to achieve >"true" player choice. I'm all for player choice. If I want to play in a community server, I should be able to. But I also feel that Valve made a game and this game was balanced (I know the arguments against that it's balanced, but let's say that it's balanced as Valve wants it balanced) for 24 people. Why shouldn't the default game be the default choice? When you play Skyrim, do you have mods auto loaded that you didn't pick because it's community created? When you play any other multiplayer game on a server, is the non-base game ever selected as default? If not, then why should TF2 default to Custom? I know you aren't saying it should, but others here have. They want Community servers to be the first thing that players see and IMHO, the default game should be the first thing. Once they see that, then if they want to explore, they can. Despite what people say that new players can't unclick a checkbox. The interface being passed around looks like a good compromise as long as when you select Community for the first time, a little warning shows up saying that the game they are entering is not the standard game and can be modified so people know what is going on. But yeah. The default should be ... well... the default. On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 4:53 PM, E. Olsen <[email protected]> wrote: I don't have a vendetta against community servers. I just dislike when community server owners think they are gods gift to TF2 and demand special treatment to the determent of those who want to play vanilla TF2. I'm not looking for special treatment. I'd be satisfied with "equitable" treatment. If we're really talking about player choice, here, then you have to remove the "default effect <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_effect_(psychology)> " that gives one group of server preferential treatment over another to achieve "true" player choice. For example, I've often heard the argument that "if players want community servers in quickplay, they can change the settings", and if that is true - shouldn't the inverse also be true? If it is, than why give any one group default preference over another? Why not simply allow the players to decide? ...and I'm sure there are plenty of arguments about servers plastered with Pinion ads, or servers selling premium BS - but valve already dealt with all of that, so both of those arguments are moot. At any rate, I honestly don't think Community can only flourish in the absence of Valve's servers, and vice versa. There simply needs to be options presented which gives both equal exposure to the players, and let's them decide (without artificially steering them towards one or another). On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 7:38 PM, Phillip Vector <[email protected]> wrote: >Logging cl_connectmethod That tells you for every server that you own. Not every server in existence. Your statement of "The majority of players still click play now instead of using the server browser" is missing something. It should say, "The majority of players ON MY SERVERS". Of course, we don't have proof of this even on your own server, but I'm willing to accept that those who connect to your servers do so via the "Play now" button. You still can't say that the majority of players though since you don't have that data. >I'm curious as to why you have a vendetta against community servers. Nice strawman there. I don't have a vendetta against community servers. I just dislike when community server owners think they are gods gift to TF2 and demand special treatment to the determent of those who want to play vanilla TF2. On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 4:28 PM, Robert Paulson <[email protected]> wrote: Logging cl_connectmethod. Why do you presume that I am pulling it from my ass? I'm curious as to why you have a vendetta against community servers. Did you get put on saigns and couldn't figure out how to type "valve" in server browser, so you are resorting to flaming the server owners here? On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Phillip Vector <[email protected]> wrote: >The majority of players still click play now instead of using the server >browser so removing valve servers from the browser list probably does very >little for your own servers. Please tell me how you managed to get access to this data. Presuming you aren't pulling it from your ass of course. On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Robert Paulson <[email protected]> wrote: Are you all really surprised by this? Valve doesn't care about community servers anymore. The moment 1 person complains that they couldn't wait 15 seconds for quickplay, it gets removed. Anyway you are all acting like half life 3 was announced. The majority of players still click play now instead of using the server browser so removing valve servers from the browser list probably does very little for your own servers. On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek <[email protected]> wrote: Endless waves of communities explaining how quickplay (and other changes ofc) destroys communities, nothing happens. Two people on the mailing list moan about valve servers being excluded from the list, instantfix. GJ On 04.07.2015 23:32, Kevin C wrote: You have got to be kidding me. http://i.imgur.com/tAmWXj6.png wink wink nudge nudge On 7/4/2015 5:28 PM, Eric Smith wrote: - Temporarily reverted Valve official quickplay and matchmaking servers not being listed in the server browser while we look into this further _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds
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