What you just said implies that *every *community server provides a modified game-play experience, which is not only a dubious claim but one that almost certainly stems from a distinct level of benightedness.
There are community servers out there, many of them, which offer a vanilla experience in aspects of game-play. My question to you is why should those servers be treated as second-class citizens to Valve servers by "default". On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 9:33 AM, Phillip Vector <[email protected]> wrote: > >If we're really talking about player choice, here, then you have to > remove the "default effect > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_effect_(psychology)>" that gives > one group of server preferential treatment over another to achieve "true" > player choice. > > I'm all for player choice. If I want to play in a community server, I > should be able to. But I also feel that Valve made a game and this game was > balanced (I know the arguments against that it's balanced, but let's say > that it's balanced as Valve wants it balanced) for 24 people. Why shouldn't > the default game be the default choice? When you play Skyrim, do you have > mods auto loaded that you didn't pick because it's community created? When > you play any other multiplayer game on a server, is the non-base game ever > selected as default? > > If not, then why should TF2 default to Custom? > > I know you aren't saying it should, but others here have. They want > Community servers to be the first thing that players see and IMHO, the > default game should be the first thing. Once they see that, then if they > want to explore, they can. Despite what people say that new players can't > unclick a checkbox. > > The interface being passed around looks like a good compromise as long as > when you select Community for the first time, a little warning shows up > saying that the game they are entering is not the standard game and can be > modified so people know what is going on. > > But yeah. The default should be ... well... the default. > > On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 4:53 PM, E. Olsen <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I don't have a vendetta against community servers. I just dislike when >>> community server owners think they are gods gift to TF2 and demand special >>> treatment to the determent of those who want to play vanilla TF2. >> >> >> I'm not looking for special treatment. I'd be satisfied with "equitable" >> treatment. >> >> If we're really talking about player choice, here, then you have to >> remove the "default effect >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_effect_(psychology)>" that gives >> one group of server preferential treatment over another to achieve "true" >> player choice. >> >> For example, I've often heard the argument that "if players want >> community servers in quickplay, they can change the settings", and if that >> is true - shouldn't the inverse also be true? If it is, than why give any >> one group default preference over another? >> >> Why not simply allow the players to decide? >> >> ...and I'm sure there are plenty of arguments about servers plastered >> with Pinion ads, or servers selling premium BS - but valve already dealt >> with all of that, so both of those arguments are moot. >> >> At any rate, I honestly don't think Community can only flourish in the >> absence of Valve's servers, and vice versa. There simply needs to be >> options presented which gives both equal exposure to the players, and let's >> them decide (without artificially steering them towards one or another). >> >> On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 7:38 PM, Phillip Vector <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >Logging cl_connectmethod >>> >>> That tells you for every server that you own. Not every server in >>> existence. Your statement of "The majority of players still click play >>> now instead of using the server browser" is missing something. It should >>> say, "The majority of players ON MY SERVERS". >>> >>> Of course, we don't have proof of this even on your own server, but I'm >>> willing to accept that those who connect to your servers do so via the >>> "Play now" button. >>> >>> You still can't say that the majority of players though since you don't >>> have that data. >>> >>> >I'm curious as to why you have a vendetta against community servers. >>> >>> Nice strawman there. I don't have a vendetta against community servers. >>> I just dislike when community server owners think they are gods gift to TF2 >>> and demand special treatment to the determent of those who want to play >>> vanilla TF2. >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 4:28 PM, Robert Paulson <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Logging cl_connectmethod. >>>> >>>> Why do you presume that I am pulling it from my ass? >>>> >>>> I'm curious as to why you have a vendetta against community servers. >>>> Did you get put on saigns and couldn't figure out how to type "valve" in >>>> server browser, so you are resorting to flaming the server owners here? >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Phillip Vector <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >The majority of players still click play now instead of using the >>>>> server browser so removing valve servers from the browser list probably >>>>> does very little for your own servers. >>>>> >>>>> Please tell me how you managed to get access to this data. Presuming >>>>> you aren't pulling it from your ass of course. >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Robert Paulson <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Are you all really surprised by this? Valve doesn't care about >>>>>> community servers anymore. The moment 1 person complains that they >>>>>> couldn't >>>>>> wait 15 seconds for quickplay, it gets removed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Anyway you are all acting like half life 3 was announced. >>>>>> >>>>>> The majority of players still click play now instead of using the >>>>>> server browser so removing valve servers from the browser list probably >>>>>> does very little for your own servers. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Endless waves of communities explaining how quickplay (and other >>>>>>> changes ofc) destroys communities, nothing happens. >>>>>>> Two people on the mailing list moan about valve servers being >>>>>>> excluded from the list, instantfix. GJ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 04.07.2015 23:32, Kevin C wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You have got to be kidding me. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://i.imgur.com/tAmWXj6.png wink wink nudge nudge >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 7/4/2015 5:28 PM, Eric Smith wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - Temporarily reverted Valve official quickplay and matchmaking >>>>>>>>> servers not being listed in the server browser while we look into this >>>>>>>>> further >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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