There's no need for negativity, just because server owners now are a small minority doesn't mean we can't grab people's attention. A lot of the TF2 community simply may not understand what all is at stake.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek < proph...@sticed.org> wrote: > Congrats, you managed to exceed the level of pragmatism and transform it > into a rant. I don't see any reasons for this. If you have doubts about > Valve caring about community servers, I do too. The situation is quite > obvious. However I'm not presenting a solution, but a way to make our > voices count for the last chance we apparently have. > You also misunderstood my reply entirely. I never said we would be > speaking for the entirety of the players. I also don't see a reason why > Valve would not at least a bit care about community servers (that tiny tiny > bit), given that they respect minorities like the competitive groups > (compared to other games like csgo and dota). I also don't see any > re-playability of small event minigames, some gamemodes that start in a > pre-alpha state and barely ever get finished (and create situations that > require weapon balancing for the next 20 years), few maps of the same > gamemodes and some contracts compared to what a decent community can > provide for itself. > You're completely oblivious to the weight communities and their gameplay > mods have on Valve's products. Please realize that almost all Valve > products started out as mods. > Killing future products and the talent behind it in its tracks by limiting > the platform seems like a very dumb strategy for a company that basically > ships ideas created by its own community. > > > On 18.12.2015 05:00, Cats From Above wrote: > > The level of starry-eyed idealism in this thread, whilst cute and > admirable, is completely ill-placed and out of touch with reality. The fact > is, Quickplay is only the first of many mechanisms that are inherently > hostile to privately run servers. Mann-Up rewards, contracts and soon > competitive matchmaking are even greater problems that make the Team > Fortress 2 server environment an unfriendly one to private operators. > Whilst the default Quickplay setting is certainly an issue affecting the > populations of privately run servers, I would personally argue the fact > that players are incentivised and rewarded for playing on official servers > is actually the bigger problem. Unless there is a way to address the > latter, I see little value in addressing the former – And let’s be honest, > Valve are not going to address any of the latter inequities because it’s > more trouble than its worth and the vast majority of players don’t care. > > > So by all means, go ahead and make your petition groups, start harassing > Valve while pretending that you speak for all private server operators, > when you do not. I suspect it will fall entirely on deaf ears. Why? Because > the only people who care about this matter are private server operators and > their friends who are clinging onto relics of the past. I personally > would like Valve to continue putting their time into creating and > implementing meaningful improvements and features such as competitive > matchmaking, irrespective of the obvious negative impact it will have on > privately run servers... And you can bet your money that competitive > matches will only be hosted on official servers, so feel free to start > complaining about that too. > > > Oh...and let's be even more frank: The fact that Matthias thinks that it > is possible for private-server operators to "speak for the Team Fortress > community" is a farce. Private server operators do not represent the > majority views of the present day Team Fortress 2 players and haven't for > quite a long time...Nor would Valve be foolish enough to appear to be > officially endorsing a select few individuals as "The Voice of Team > Fortress 2 Communities!" > > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Rowedahelicon < > theoneando...@rowedahelicon.com> wrote: > >> I want to go on record saying I very much agree with Matthias point about >> Valve's community interactions. Beyond TF2, I can give you a good argument >> why Valve needs to discuss with their community more, as it's not just us >> that are affected. Fixing quickplay is a good goal but as we've seen with >> everything else that has happened we can solve a lot of issues by attacking >> the root problem. That being said, it's still important that we stay >> focused. >> >> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 9:04 PM, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek < >> <proph...@sticed.org>proph...@sticed.org> wrote: >> >>> Yes, I have considered it, and no. Ads itself are a separate topic/issue >>> to be discussed, and I don't see an objective basis for this when people >>> with their companies are involved and are moderating this. This quickly >>> reminds me of how the UN is arranged and veto powers are being abused there >>> to absurdity (or rather politics in general). >>> I don't know you personally, how could I have something against you as a >>> person? >>> To be honest, judging from the posts by Patrick, I might as well return >>> that question. To me (and a few others) it seemed pretty obvious that he >>> was spreading false information in order to get the csgo motd issue fixed. >>> It also didn't help the cause that he quickly tried to defame people who >>> brought up valid concerns about advertising. Outside of this mailing list >>> even threats of lawsuits from his side have happened. I also have a few >>> guesses regarding how you get ad support for motds for various games, so >>> there would be another conflict of interest as well. >>> No, I do not want that to happen and I don't see this particular >>> behavior being helpful. >>> >>> >>> On 18.12.2015 02:50, Paul wrote: >>> >>> I've been playing Team Fortress 2 long before motdgd even existed, have >>> you ever considered that the reasons are actually personal/informal? I go >>> back as far as the days of WON and Team Fortress Classic. However it seems >>> to me that you have a personal grudge with me which is very unfortunate. >>> >>> On 17 December 2015 at 23:34, Matthias "InstantMuffin" Kollek < >>> <proph...@sticed.org>proph...@sticed.org> wrote: >>> >>>> One of the mods in that group belongs to motdgd. Sorry, not going to >>>> join that group. Conflict of interest. I do not want TF2 to suck. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 18.12.2015 00:20, Jan wrote: >>>> >>>> Similar group was set up before: >>>> <http://steamcommunity.com/groups/fixquickplay> >>>> http://steamcommunity.com/groups/fixquickplay >>>> >>>> On 18.12.2015 0:13, Rowedahelicon wrote: >>>> >>>> <http://steamcommunity.com/groups/TF2CommunityServers> >>>> http://steamcommunity.com/groups/TF2CommunityServers I've setup this >>>> group for now for us all to hop into , ignore my skype thing before I for >>>> whatever reason didn't think to use Steam. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 6:03 PM, Robert Paulson < >>>> <thepauls...@gmail.com>thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Like I said before, it is way too late for an angry post on reddit. >>>>> >>>>> Many of you thought these changes would just kill off the "bad" >>>>> servers which "obviously" excluded your own, and applauded Valve and even >>>>> asked for more and more restrictions. >>>>> >>>>> Community players are the minority now. Just last week I talked to a >>>>> player who had no idea that community servers existed even though he was >>>>> in >>>>> one. >>>>> >>>>> All the communities that spammed /r/tf2 to get players have >>>>> irreversibly died (it would take them years to rebuild now) and have no >>>>> incentive to help. In fact I see them insulting the communities that are >>>>> still around. If they failed, then others must too. >>>>> >>>>> When competitive matchmaking comes out sometimes early next year, that >>>>> will be the final nail in the coffin for community servers. There's not >>>>> much we can do other than to serve as a warning to never get involved with >>>>> anything Valve does beyond playing their game. Don't get involved with >>>>> their ecosystem as they will screw you over whenever it suits them. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> <https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds> >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Matthew (Rowedahelicon) Robinson* >>>> Web Designer / Artist / Writer >>>> Website - <http://www.rowedahelicon.com/>http://www.rowedahelicon.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> *Matthew (Rowedahelicon) Robinson* >> Web Designer / Artist / Writer >> Website - http://www.rowedahelicon.com/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit:https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > -- *Matthew (Rowedahelicon) Robinson* Web Designer / Artist / Writer Website - http://www.rowedahelicon.com/
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