Yeah, there appears to be a missing post now. But hey, what's to be expected from operations that try to trick users?
On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:04 AM, Brian Simon <[email protected]>wrote: > I see no posts by any Lotusclan administrators in that thread you linked > to. Also, did you know that Skial does not actually delete threads and ban > users for talking about bots? There's really no credibility or proof behind > either of your examples there. > > One more thing, Lotus Clan does not masquerade bots as players, just fyi > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 11:45 PM, coffee problem <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > Hey Fletcher, Thanks for your reply. I have much appreciation for Valve > at > > least saying this is wrong. When I've contacted admins for a few > > communities, they said they would stop if Valve said to do so. This seems > > to be a clear message to cease these activities. > > > > http://forums.gamingterritory.com/topic/15515-are-bots-really-necessary/ > > > > There you go, LotusClan administration admitting they use these types of > > misleading bots to pump up server stats because "they have to do it". > > Please do what you guys need to do, since the reporting tool has yet to > > lead to anything. Skial likes to delete all threads and ban users > > associated with the discussion of their bots and misleading activities, > so > > not so much evidence there.. Yet. > > > > CP > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Fletcher Dunn > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > This is a problem we're obviously aware of. It's definitely not that > we > > > don't care. However, it is essentially an arms race that is provably > > > unwinnable by Valve. Furthermore, any change we make in the name of > > > security will almost certainly cause a disruption of legitimate > service, > > > due to bugs on our part, or usage cases we're just not aware of. It > is a > > > classic conflict between security and accessibility. > > > > > > Hopefully those two reasons help explain our reluctance to address > these > > > sorts of problems through technology. They will create an ongoing arms > > > race, in which we can possibly limit this activity and make it harder, > > but > > > probably never eliminate it completely. Furthermore, this benefit > comes > > at > > > a cost of taking resources away from adding features and fixing bugs, > and > > > also disrupting legitimate users. > > > > > > When we can do simple and safe things to make it harder to do these > sorts > > > of things, we will. We have some protocol changes that will make it > > harder > > > to do this sort of spoofing, which have been beta tested for some time > > now. > > > We'll be rolling those out in the next couple of months. > > > > > > Crowdsourcing using the abuse reports helps us stay out of the arms > race, > > > and it's the safest and simplest way to deal with this problem and many > > > others like it. > > > > > > Your humble servant, > > > Fletch > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] [mailto: > > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Mart-Jan > > Reeuwijk > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 5:39 AM > > > To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Fake clients, misreported bots, infringing > > usage > > > of player names/images > > > > > > there is some italian group that does that. > > > > > > they have dozens maybe even in the hundred of servers in server list, > but > > > all get redirected to 1 server. and those server report a variety of > maps > > > played, names in server lists etc. you click info, refresh, says for > > > example dustbowl, and then join, get redirected to their server, with > > bots, > > > and another map then advertized in the server info. Its damn annoying. > > And > > > indeed, they change IP's a lot, to evade blacklisting. > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > >From: daniel jokiaho <[email protected]> > > > >To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list < > > > [email protected]> > > > >Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2011, 7:27 > > > >Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Fake clients, misreported bots, infringing > > > usage of player names/images > > > > > > > >what about servers on different ips and port that have exactly the > same > > > >players. > > > > > > > >I join server x. U join server y. And still we play against or with > each > > > >other :-( > > > >On 2 Nov 2011 06:53, "msleeper" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > >> Are you sure they're not just adding more servers? Changing IPs is a > > > >> server playerbase suicide as anyone who had it bookmarked won't be > > > >> able to find it again. I suppose they could use those servers for > > > >> redirects, but in theory that would get those IPs blacklisted pretty > > > >> fast if Valve's scoring/reputation system is still in effect. > > > >> > > > >> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 1:42 AM, Jesse Porter <[email protected] > > > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > The problem with blacklisting these servers is that they seem to > > show > > > up > > > >> a > > > >> > few weeks later with a new batch of ip addresses. Can't blacklist > > them > > > >> > effectively when they do that. > > > >> > On Nov 1, 2011 7:40 PM, "Robert Paulson" <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> >> It is very rude of you to repeatedly spam the mailing list to > > > pressure > > > >> >> Valve into doing whatever you want instead of working on crashes > > and > > > >> >> content. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Valve has already put in a huge effort making these servers less > > > >> prominent. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> - Blacklist > > > >> >> - Quickplay > > > >> >> - Reputation > > > >> >> > > > >> >> It isn't perfect but blacklisting takes care of the servers you > > don't > > > >> like > > > >> >> once you've spotted them. Quickplay and reputation filter most of > > the > > > >> ones > > > >> >> you haven't spotted yet. No one I know has any problems finding a > > > server > > > >> >> full of real players. Everyone I know just blacklists and move > on. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Server IPs do not change often since it costs money to buy new > ones > > > and > > > >> you > > > >> >> need proper ARIN justification to get more due to the IPV4 > > shortage. > > > The > > > >> >> fact that you are on here spamming about it as though TF2 is > going > > to > > > >> die > > > >> >> out next week makes me think that you are struggling with your > own > > > >> server > > > >> >> rather than being a concerned player. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> I also hate the big pay-to-win servers with fake clients, but it > > > would > > > >> be a > > > >> >> mistake for Valve to just de-list them, wrongly assuming no one > > > really > > > >> >> wants to play there. I have a friend who wouldn't be playing TF2 > if > > > they > > > >> >> didn't exist and has bought hundreds of dollars worth of Mann Co > > > keys. > > > >> And > > > >> >> from what he tells me he isn't the only one. Yes he knows there > are > > > >> bots. > > > >> >> The "cloaked" bots appeal to him for the same reason Valve > decided > > > not > > > >> to > > > >> >> name bots bot1, bot2, bot3 and to have them taunt randomly. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> These servers still exist not because of a fake player plugin but > > > >> because, > > > >> >> as much as it pains us to believe, some players actually prefer > > them. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> No one here is enthusiastic about having Valve delist servers > based > > > on > > > >> >> anonymous reports because we all know that the system will be > > abused > > > >> even > > > >> >> though they have "taken basic measures to prevent" it. We know > this > > > >> because > > > >> >> they also took "measures" to prevent F2P players from avoiding > VAC > > > bans > > > >> by > > > >> >> making throw-away accounts, yet I still see hackers that have > made > > at > > > >> least > > > >> >> 5 of them in a row and even adding their old VAC banned account > on > > > their > > > >> >> friends list. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> To save Valve the administration overhead and abuse, and to > satisfy > > > both > > > >> >> server administrators and players, I suggest dropping the server > > > report > > > >> >> function and adding either of these 2 features. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> 1. Add a check-box for Valve-only/Favorites-only Quickplay > servers. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> 2. Let premium players rate servers from 1 to 5 upon > disconnection. > > > Each > > > >> >> player may only vote once. To prevent voter apathy, servers are > > > >> >> automatically rated a 5 if the player does not vote. Then the > user > > > can > > > >> >> decide for him/herself to connect to the server based on the > rating > > > >> rather > > > >> >> than a few opinionated complainers. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> These two solutions address the root of the problem and lets the > > > player > > > >> >> decide while freeing Valve to work on more content. > > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > > >> >> please visit: > > > >> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > >> >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > > >> please visit: > > > >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > > >> please visit: > > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > >http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > > please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > ducks > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
