I don't think this mailing list is the place to post server names, admins, owners and whoever...it was never its intentions to use it as such as this whole discussion could have been carried out on the official TF2 forums or just use the contact us page. Constantly I see posts like this getting stuck in the middle of server issue posts that I need or like to read which is the reason I signed up for the list in the first place.
Again if you have issues with a server you don't like either stop playing on them or use the proper channels as they've gave you or even those other two. There are currently about 6000 servers to play on and this is what I saw in the middle of the day...I find it hard to believe if you have an issue with one you can't find another to play on that better suits your needs and addresses you're complaints with how its managed. Remember at the end of the day: It's still just a game. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of coffee problem Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 2:12 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Fake clients, misreported bots, infringing usage of player names/images Yeah, there appears to be a missing post now. But hey, what's to be expected from operations that try to trick users? On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 1:04 AM, Brian Simon <[email protected]>wrote: > I see no posts by any Lotusclan administrators in that thread you > linked to. Also, did you know that Skial does not actually delete > threads and ban users for talking about bots? There's really no > credibility or proof behind either of your examples there. > > One more thing, Lotus Clan does not masquerade bots as players, just > fyi > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 11:45 PM, coffee problem > <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > Hey Fletcher, Thanks for your reply. I have much appreciation for > > Valve > at > > least saying this is wrong. When I've contacted admins for a few > > communities, they said they would stop if Valve said to do so. This > > seems to be a clear message to cease these activities. > > > > http://forums.gamingterritory.com/topic/15515-are-bots-really-necess > > ary/ > > > > There you go, LotusClan administration admitting they use these > > types of misleading bots to pump up server stats because "they have to do it". > > Please do what you guys need to do, since the reporting tool has yet > > to lead to anything. Skial likes to delete all threads and ban users > > associated with the discussion of their bots and misleading > > activities, > so > > not so much evidence there.. Yet. > > > > CP > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 2:50 PM, Fletcher Dunn > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > This is a problem we're obviously aware of. It's definitely not > > > that > we > > > don't care. However, it is essentially an arms race that is > > > provably unwinnable by Valve. Furthermore, any change we make in > > > the name of security will almost certainly cause a disruption of > > > legitimate > service, > > > due to bugs on our part, or usage cases we're just not aware of. > > > It > is a > > > classic conflict between security and accessibility. > > > > > > Hopefully those two reasons help explain our reluctance to address > these > > > sorts of problems through technology. They will create an ongoing > > > arms race, in which we can possibly limit this activity and make > > > it harder, > > but > > > probably never eliminate it completely. Furthermore, this benefit > comes > > at > > > a cost of taking resources away from adding features and fixing > > > bugs, > and > > > also disrupting legitimate users. > > > > > > When we can do simple and safe things to make it harder to do > > > these > sorts > > > of things, we will. We have some protocol changes that will make > > > it > > harder > > > to do this sort of spoofing, which have been beta tested for some > > > time > > now. > > > We'll be rolling those out in the next couple of months. > > > > > > Crowdsourcing using the abuse reports helps us stay out of the > > > arms > race, > > > and it's the safest and simplest way to deal with this problem and > > > many others like it. > > > > > > Your humble servant, > > > Fletch > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] [mailto: > > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Mart-Jan > > Reeuwijk > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2011 5:39 AM > > > To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list > > > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Fake clients, misreported bots, > > > infringing > > usage > > > of player names/images > > > > > > there is some italian group that does that. > > > > > > they have dozens maybe even in the hundred of servers in server > > > list, > but > > > all get redirected to 1 server. and those server report a variety > > > of > maps > > > played, names in server lists etc. you click info, refresh, says > > > for example dustbowl, and then join, get redirected to their > > > server, with > > bots, > > > and another map then advertized in the server info. Its damn annoying. > > And > > > indeed, they change IP's a lot, to evade blacklisting. > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > >From: daniel jokiaho <[email protected]> > > > >To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list < > > > [email protected]> > > > >Sent: Wednesday, 2 November 2011, 7:27 > > > >Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Fake clients, misreported bots, > > > >infringing > > > usage of player names/images > > > > > > > >what about servers on different ips and port that have exactly > > > >the > same > > > >players. > > > > > > > >I join server x. U join server y. And still we play against or > > > >with > each > > > >other :-( > > > >On 2 Nov 2011 06:53, "msleeper" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > >> Are you sure they're not just adding more servers? Changing IPs > > > >> is a server playerbase suicide as anyone who had it bookmarked > > > >> won't be able to find it again. I suppose they could use those > > > >> servers for redirects, but in theory that would get those IPs > > > >> blacklisted pretty fast if Valve's scoring/reputation system is still in effect. > > > >> > > > >> On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 1:42 AM, Jesse Porter > > > >> <[email protected] > > > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > The problem with blacklisting these servers is that they seem > > > >> > to > > show > > > up > > > >> a > > > >> > few weeks later with a new batch of ip addresses. Can't > > > >> > blacklist > > them > > > >> > effectively when they do that. > > > >> > On Nov 1, 2011 7:40 PM, "Robert Paulson" > > > >> > <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> >> It is very rude of you to repeatedly spam the mailing list > > > >> >> to > > > pressure > > > >> >> Valve into doing whatever you want instead of working on > > > >> >> crashes > > and > > > >> >> content. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Valve has already put in a huge effort making these servers > > > >> >> less > > > >> prominent. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> - Blacklist > > > >> >> - Quickplay > > > >> >> - Reputation > > > >> >> > > > >> >> It isn't perfect but blacklisting takes care of the servers > > > >> >> you > > don't > > > >> like > > > >> >> once you've spotted them. Quickplay and reputation filter > > > >> >> most of > > the > > > >> ones > > > >> >> you haven't spotted yet. No one I know has any problems > > > >> >> finding a > > > server > > > >> >> full of real players. Everyone I know just blacklists and > > > >> >> move > on. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Server IPs do not change often since it costs money to buy > > > >> >> new > ones > > > and > > > >> you > > > >> >> need proper ARIN justification to get more due to the IPV4 > > shortage. > > > The > > > >> >> fact that you are on here spamming about it as though TF2 is > going > > to > > > >> die > > > >> >> out next week makes me think that you are struggling with > > > >> >> your > own > > > >> server > > > >> >> rather than being a concerned player. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> I also hate the big pay-to-win servers with fake clients, > > > >> >> but it > > > would > > > >> be a > > > >> >> mistake for Valve to just de-list them, wrongly assuming no > > > >> >> one > > > really > > > >> >> wants to play there. I have a friend who wouldn't be playing > > > >> >> TF2 > if > > > they > > > >> >> didn't exist and has bought hundreds of dollars worth of > > > >> >> Mann Co > > > keys. > > > >> And > > > >> >> from what he tells me he isn't the only one. Yes he knows > > > >> >> there > are > > > >> bots. > > > >> >> The "cloaked" bots appeal to him for the same reason Valve > decided > > > not > > > >> to > > > >> >> name bots bot1, bot2, bot3 and to have them taunt randomly. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> These servers still exist not because of a fake player > > > >> >> plugin but > > > >> because, > > > >> >> as much as it pains us to believe, some players actually > > > >> >> prefer > > them. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> No one here is enthusiastic about having Valve delist > > > >> >> servers > based > > > on > > > >> >> anonymous reports because we all know that the system will > > > >> >> be > > abused > > > >> even > > > >> >> though they have "taken basic measures to prevent" it. We > > > >> >> know > this > > > >> because > > > >> >> they also took "measures" to prevent F2P players from > > > >> >> avoiding > VAC > > > bans > > > >> by > > > >> >> making throw-away accounts, yet I still see hackers that > > > >> >> have > made > > at > > > >> least > > > >> >> 5 of them in a row and even adding their old VAC banned > > > >> >> account > on > > > their > > > >> >> friends list. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> To save Valve the administration overhead and abuse, and to > satisfy > > > both > > > >> >> server administrators and players, I suggest dropping the > > > >> >> server > > > report > > > >> >> function and adding either of these 2 features. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> 1. Add a check-box for Valve-only/Favorites-only Quickplay > servers. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> 2. Let premium players rate servers from 1 to 5 upon > disconnection. > > > Each > > > >> >> player may only vote once. To prevent voter apathy, servers > > > >> >> are automatically rated a 5 if the player does not vote. > > > >> >> Then the > user > > > can > > > >> >> decide for him/herself to connect to the server based on the > rating > > > >> rather > > > >> >> than a few opinionated complainers. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> These two solutions address the root of the problem and lets > > > >> >> the > > > player > > > >> >> decide while freeing Valve to work on more content. > > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, > > > >> >> please visit: > > > >> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > >> >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > > >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, > > > >> please visit: > > > >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > > > >> please visit: > > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > >archives, > > > please visit: > > > >http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > > archives, please visit: > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > ducks > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
