Pierre, Thank you for your thoughtful email. I also want to thank you for your work over the years for OSM and HOT, I truly appreciate your efforts. I also want to apologize if you take offense by my efforts, please know that I am trying to contribute in a way that improves the way OSM develops and refine resources to help HOT tasks. A little background on myself; for more than 25 years I have worked as a geospatial professional and have designed and contributed to many GIS data construction efforts and have lead projects that transitioned from a legacy product to a more streamlined design. The frustration and mistakes associated with inconsistent design cannot be underestimated. If we were to start the tagging design for OSM today I believe that our collective experience would give us something different than what we have now. I realize that this is not possible and I am trying to help clarify the existing tagging to help ensure future contributions are consistent as possible. It is unfortunate that you were not able to be in Kampala for the State of the Map Africa conference. The discussion highway tagging workshop there was very positive and constructive, and did not have strong disagreements. Following that discussion my intent in editing the wiki was an attempt to have the descriptions in a similar format without a long description. I also am trying to develop a one page guide that can be used in a mapathon or carto-party as a tool to help new mappers. It would be best if the language of the guide and the wiki were the same. In terms of classification I am very sensitive to the arrogance that sometimes can be communicated by expatriates regarding infrastructure in a developing countries. A rough road that would not be considered worth mapping in Europe could be a vital transportation link for a settlement were the same construction found in Africa. I have seen many roads tagged as highway=track when in reality the road should be either unclassified or even tertiary. We also have the challenge of describing major routes within an urban area. The words used in US transportation language are "collector" and "arterial" which imply that traffic is collected from several residential streets and then joined with other collectors to an arterial route. This is less of an issue than a rural setting in Africa, but still should be addressed in the wiki.
Again, I appreciate your efforts and hope you understand that I want to contribute to the OSM in a positive fashion. Regards, Emmor On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 2:44 PM, Pierre Béland <pierz...@yahoo.fr> wrote: > Hi Emmor > > The Highway Tag Africa wiki page is used in Africa and other countries > with similar realities. It has often been discussed since 2013, > contributors being in favor in general to bring in this classification that > insist on the role of roads vs the infrastructure and other aspects. Be > assure that we do consider paths as important elements of mapping. Either > in training sessions or for the various OSM Responses like Congo, Mali, > Ebola, Nepal, Haiti, etc. we have always given instructions to trace paths > either in urban areas or between villages and hamlets, mountains in Nepal, > etc. > > Comparing the wiki page July 9 vs July 22, I see that important segments > of this wiki page have been rewritten. > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Highway_ > Tag_Africa&type=revision&diff=1493742&oldid=1489377 > > As the architect of this page in 2013, I believe that the modifications > made add confusion to the economic an social role of each class of > highways. Some descriptions added to each class about passable (access ?), > plus road width and surface bring back the notion of infrastructure to > describe each class. These additions should be discussed and we have to > decide the best place where to introduce these concepts. > > We can group roads in three blocks > 1. Major interconnecting roads : highway=tertiary and over, that assure > the intercity traffic or intra-urban collector traffic in major towns > 2. Local interconnecting roads : highway=unclassified, interconnection at > the local level, between villages / hamlets . There are also paths that > connect villages. > 3. Local roads and paths: higway=residential, track, path > > When we make the distinction between roads and paths it is important to > evaluate if a car or a 4x4 can circulate on this way. This is important to > evaluate the population that have access to roadways, to evaluate if any > access is possible by car to offer services or for emergency support. If > information about motorbike access is important, a tag motorcycle=yes could > be added. > > If a 4x4 can circulate on a way, we do not specify highway=path. If there > are seasonal restrictions, (ie. at rainy season in Africa or winter in > northern countries), we simply add a restriction to indicate the > non-accessibiliy for this period. > > The same with tracks. These are important. But we dont want contributors > to mark all roads as track making the infrastructure aspects overrule the > economic and social role. There are other keys to describe the other > aspects. > > See my analysis of the modifications comparing wiki page July 9 vs July 22. > > <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Highway_Tag_Africa&type=revision&diff=1493742&oldid=1489377> > The addition below to the wiki page is a bit confusing, not clear what we > want to insist on here > > - Please note that a highway > <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway> = track > <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtrack> is not a > more primitive construction class of a residential road > > > *Road passable, road width and surface* : Additions made to the various > classes reduce the clarity. > 1. road passable - we talk here of access permitted to piedestrians, > motos, etc. For more clarity and keep the classification easier to > understand, I suggest that this access description should be in a distinct > section an not repeated in each class (ie. primary, secondary, tertiary, > etc.) > 2. road width - My objective writing this wiki page in 2013 was to insist > about the distinction between the economic / social role of a road vs the > infrastructures and road condition. This insistance on widths is confusing, > bringing in the concept of the state of the road vs it's role. A note to > say this is simply indicative? > 3. surface - there are other sections to talk about surface - not > necessary to add in each class. > > *Highway=secondary,* New description is less clear > Original : > > - The roads connecting with regional capital cities and the towns of > some importance (health services, commerce, etc.). > > The new description, the first sentence added is less clear. > > - Major transportation routes connecting cities and large towns. > Collector function in urban areas. > > > *highway=tertiary*, New description, the first sentence added is less > clear. > Original > > - The roads interconnecting villages and the major streets in towns of > some importance. > > The new description added > > - Major transportation routes connecting towns and larger villages. > Collector function in urban areas. > > > *highway=unclassified* > This class is used to distinguish rural roads interconnecting villages VS > tracks going to the outskirts of villages. We should clarify that the > section that cross a village, even if housings on each side should still be > classified higway=unclassified. > The new definition is ambiguous > > - Minor collector roads that allow travel and commerce from paths and > residential roads to and between settlements. Generally not residential > > > > > *highway=residential* > - Previous description was > > - Used for roads in the residential areas except the major streets > that interconnect with various roads (ie. primary, secondary, tertiary). > Should not be used to connect villages and hamlets. > > - New description is unclear, adds confusion talking of urban and rural > > - In urban or rural setting roads which serve as an access to housing, > without function of connecting settlements . Often lined with housing . > > > > *highway=track* > - Previous description was > > - The small roads going outside the residential areas, mainly for > '''agricultural and forestry''' purposes. Tracks can also be found in > National Parks and Game Reserves. In general these roads do not have > connecting function with other roads, and do not connect > villages/hamlets.}}} > > - New description, the first sentence is unclear > > - Access route from dwellings to agricultural and forestry areas. > Roads within National Parks and Game Reserves may be tagged as tracks. No > connection function between settlements. > > > > Regard > > > Pierre > > > ------------------------------ > *De :* Vao Matua <vaoma...@gmail.com> > *À :* Jens Mueller (Historical Research Services) <h...@hist.de> > *Cc :* HOT Openstreetmap <hot@openstreetmap.org> > *Envoyé le :* Dimanche 30 juillet 2017 11h03 > *Objet :* Re: [HOT] Highway Tag Africa wiki > > > > > Ukundji > > Thank you for you comments, yes Ethiopia needs to have an OSM restart. > For the last 10 months I was living in SNNPR and was not able to meet a > single OSM contributor. > The infrastructure, unfortunately, makes OSM contributions and even use > very difficult. > Ethiopians would be very interested in getting OSMAnd on their phones, > however, it appears to be a restricted app. > > In terms of paths to Ethiopian villages it is indeed the case that the > primary or only transportation route to a population may only be by foot or > donkey traffic on a path. > I think the perception that a path is not important is quite common and is > not true. Important or significant paths need to be mapped for commerce, > food safety, and potential relief efforts, not only in Ethiopia but in > other parts of Africa and places throughout the world. > > The discussion about importance > <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/Importance> doesn't > seem to have moved forward but could have some value. > > At SOTM Africa earlier this month there was quite a bit of discussion on > highway tags, including paths. Based on that discussion I have updated the > Africa > Highway Tagging guide > <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa> to help clarify > that a road has not only a construction class as well as an economic or > social function. > > Regards > > Emmor > (Palolo <http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Palolo>) > >
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