I've been giving some thought to the large number of highway=track connecting settlements.
When I come across them and have the time I'll retag them normally to unclassified but the idle thought would be is there a way to identify them for inspection? In JOSM I suspect we are limited to looking at tracks with more than twenty nodes but could someone build a plugin that would select them based on does it touch two or more settlements so they could be fed into the to-do plugin? Or can someone come up with a way to identify them in some other way? Thanks John On 3 Aug 2017 7:19 pm, "Vao Matua" <vaoma...@gmail.com> wrote: > Pierre, > > Thank you for your thoughtful email. > I also want to thank you for your work over the years for OSM and HOT, I > truly appreciate your efforts. > I also want to apologize if you take offense by my efforts, please know > that I am trying to contribute in a way that improves the way OSM develops > and refine resources to help HOT tasks. > A little background on myself; for more than 25 years I have worked as a > geospatial professional and have designed and contributed to many GIS data > construction efforts and have lead projects that transitioned from a legacy > product to a more streamlined design. The frustration and mistakes > associated with inconsistent design cannot be underestimated. > If we were to start the tagging design for OSM today I believe that our > collective experience would give us something different than what we have > now. I realize that this is not possible and I am trying to help clarify > the existing tagging to help ensure future contributions are consistent as > possible. > It is unfortunate that you were not able to be in Kampala for the State of > the Map Africa conference. The discussion highway tagging workshop there > was very positive and constructive, and did not have strong disagreements. > Following that discussion my intent in editing the wiki was an attempt to > have the descriptions in a similar format without a long description. I > also am trying to develop a one page guide that can be used in a mapathon > or carto-party as a tool to help new mappers. It would be best if the > language of the guide and the wiki were the same. > In terms of classification I am very sensitive to the arrogance that > sometimes can be communicated by expatriates regarding infrastructure in a > developing countries. A rough road that would not be considered worth > mapping in Europe could be a vital transportation link for a settlement > were the same construction found in Africa. I have seen many roads tagged > as highway=track when in reality the road should be either unclassified or > even tertiary. > We also have the challenge of describing major routes within an urban > area. The words used in US transportation language are "collector" and > "arterial" which imply that traffic is collected from several residential > streets and then joined with other collectors to an arterial route. This is > less of an issue than a rural setting in Africa, but still should be > addressed in the wiki. > > Again, I appreciate your efforts and hope you understand that I want to > contribute to the OSM in a positive fashion. > > Regards, > > Emmor > > > On Wed, Aug 2, 2017 at 2:44 PM, Pierre Béland <pierz...@yahoo.fr> wrote: > >> Hi Emmor >> >> The Highway Tag Africa wiki page is used in Africa and other countries >> with similar realities. It has often been discussed since 2013, >> contributors being in favor in general to bring in this classification that >> insist on the role of roads vs the infrastructure and other aspects. Be >> assure that we do consider paths as important elements of mapping. Either >> in training sessions or for the various OSM Responses like Congo, Mali, >> Ebola, Nepal, Haiti, etc. we have always given instructions to trace paths >> either in urban areas or between villages and hamlets, mountains in Nepal, >> etc. >> >> Comparing the wiki page July 9 vs July 22, I see that important segments >> of this wiki page have been rewritten. >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Highway_Tag >> _Africa&type=revision&diff=1493742&oldid=1489377 >> >> As the architect of this page in 2013, I believe that the modifications >> made add confusion to the economic an social role of each class of >> highways. Some descriptions added to each class about passable (access ?), >> plus road width and surface bring back the notion of infrastructure to >> describe each class. These additions should be discussed and we have to >> decide the best place where to introduce these concepts. >> >> We can group roads in three blocks >> 1. Major interconnecting roads : highway=tertiary and over, that assure >> the intercity traffic or intra-urban collector traffic in major towns >> 2. Local interconnecting roads : highway=unclassified, interconnection at >> the local level, between villages / hamlets . There are also paths that >> connect villages. >> 3. Local roads and paths: higway=residential, track, path >> >> When we make the distinction between roads and paths it is important to >> evaluate if a car or a 4x4 can circulate on this way. This is important to >> evaluate the population that have access to roadways, to evaluate if any >> access is possible by car to offer services or for emergency support. If >> information about motorbike access is important, a tag motorcycle=yes could >> be added. >> >> If a 4x4 can circulate on a way, we do not specify highway=path. If there >> are seasonal restrictions, (ie. at rainy season in Africa or winter in >> northern countries), we simply add a restriction to indicate the >> non-accessibiliy for this period. >> >> The same with tracks. These are important. But we dont want contributors >> to mark all roads as track making the infrastructure aspects overrule the >> economic and social role. There are other keys to describe the other >> aspects. >> >> See my analysis of the modifications comparing wiki page July 9 vs July >> 22. >> >> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Highway_Tag_Africa&type=revision&diff=1493742&oldid=1489377> >> The addition below to the wiki page is a bit confusing, not clear what we >> want to insist on here >> >> - Please note that a highway >> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway> = track >> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtrack> is not a >> more primitive construction class of a residential road >> >> >> *Road passable, road width and surface* : Additions made to the various >> classes reduce the clarity. >> 1. road passable - we talk here of access permitted to piedestrians, >> motos, etc. For more clarity and keep the classification easier to >> understand, I suggest that this access description should be in a distinct >> section an not repeated in each class (ie. primary, secondary, tertiary, >> etc.) >> 2. road width - My objective writing this wiki page in 2013 was to insist >> about the distinction between the economic / social role of a road vs the >> infrastructures and road condition. This insistance on widths is confusing, >> bringing in the concept of the state of the road vs it's role. A note to >> say this is simply indicative? >> 3. surface - there are other sections to talk about surface - not >> necessary to add in each class. >> >> *Highway=secondary,* New description is less clear >> Original : >> >> - The roads connecting with regional capital cities and the towns of >> some importance (health services, commerce, etc.). >> >> The new description, the first sentence added is less clear. >> >> - Major transportation routes connecting cities and large towns. >> Collector function in urban areas. >> >> >> *highway=tertiary*, New description, the first sentence added is less >> clear. >> Original >> >> - The roads interconnecting villages and the major streets in towns >> of some importance. >> >> The new description added >> >> - Major transportation routes connecting towns and larger villages. >> Collector function in urban areas. >> >> >> *highway=unclassified* >> This class is used to distinguish rural roads interconnecting villages VS >> tracks going to the outskirts of villages. We should clarify that the >> section that cross a village, even if housings on each side should still be >> classified higway=unclassified. >> The new definition is ambiguous >> >> - Minor collector roads that allow travel and commerce from paths and >> residential roads to and between settlements. Generally not residential >> >> >> >> >> *highway=residential* >> - Previous description was >> >> - Used for roads in the residential areas except the major streets >> that interconnect with various roads (ie. primary, secondary, tertiary). >> Should not be used to connect villages and hamlets. >> >> - New description is unclear, adds confusion talking of urban and rural >> >> - In urban or rural setting roads which serve as an access to >> housing, without function of connecting settlements . Often lined with >> housing . >> >> >> >> *highway=track* >> - Previous description was >> >> - The small roads going outside the residential areas, mainly for >> '''agricultural and forestry''' purposes. Tracks can also be found in >> National Parks and Game Reserves. In general these roads do not have >> connecting function with other roads, and do not connect >> villages/hamlets.}}} >> >> - New description, the first sentence is unclear >> >> - Access route from dwellings to agricultural and forestry areas. >> Roads within National Parks and Game Reserves may be tagged as tracks. No >> connection function between settlements. >> >> >> >> Regard >> >> >> Pierre >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *De :* Vao Matua <vaoma...@gmail.com> >> *À :* Jens Mueller (Historical Research Services) <h...@hist.de> >> *Cc :* HOT Openstreetmap <hot@openstreetmap.org> >> *Envoyé le :* Dimanche 30 juillet 2017 11h03 >> *Objet :* Re: [HOT] Highway Tag Africa wiki >> >> >> >> >> Ukundji >> >> Thank you for you comments, yes Ethiopia needs to have an OSM restart. >> For the last 10 months I was living in SNNPR and was not able to meet a >> single OSM contributor. >> The infrastructure, unfortunately, makes OSM contributions and even use >> very difficult. >> Ethiopians would be very interested in getting OSMAnd on their phones, >> however, it appears to be a restricted app. >> >> In terms of paths to Ethiopian villages it is indeed the case that the >> primary or only transportation route to a population may only be by foot or >> donkey traffic on a path. >> I think the perception that a path is not important is quite common and >> is not true. Important or significant paths need to be mapped for >> commerce, food safety, and potential relief efforts, not only in Ethiopia >> but in other parts of Africa and places throughout the world. >> >> The discussion about importance >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_Features/Importance> >> doesn't seem to have moved forward but could have some value. >> >> At SOTM Africa earlier this month there was quite a bit of discussion on >> highway tags, including paths. Based on that discussion I have updated the >> Africa >> Highway Tagging guide >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Highway_Tag_Africa> to help clarify >> that a road has not only a construction class as well as an economic or >> social function. >> >> Regards >> >> Emmor >> (Palolo <http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Palolo>) >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > HOT mailing list > HOT@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > >
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