Wow .... my head is spinning ... now i have a headache.... *L* 

Grey Aengus (aka Jim)http://www.greyaengus.com often in error, never in doubt


--- On Tue, 3/3/09, Gary Plazyk <[email protected]> wrote:

> From: Gary Plazyk <[email protected]>
> Subject: [HG-new] Re: Hurdy Gurdy Girls
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 5:40 PM
> Hi!
> 
> I am also interested in following this thread.  We had some
> discussion about it on this list in June 2006; following is
> part of a post I made then.
> 
> Very best regards,
> 
> -Gary P. (in rural northern Illinois near Marengo, between
> Elgin and Rockford IL)
> 
> Gary Plazyk, [email protected]
> Fuzzy Bear Farm
> http://profiles.yahoo.com/g_plazyk
> http://www.BearCreekMusic.us
> http://www.RavenswoodMorris.org
> 
> "Music is too important to leave to the
> professionals." -Robert Shaw
> 
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [HG] Hurdy gurdies in American Civil War?
> Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:05:41 -0500
> From: Gary F. Plazyk <[email protected]>
> Reply-To: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> 
> Hi!
> ...
> [Omitted:  discussion of the hurdy gurdy in the 1937 movie
> _Captains Courageous_ starring Spencer Tracy]
> ...
> 
> *** I did some further searching on Google (search term
> "hurdy gurdy" "New Orleans"), and found
> a few promising lines of research.  In the Lark in the
> Morning web site's history of the Hurdy Gurdy (
> http://larkinthemorning.com/article.asp?AI=41&bhcd2=1151589961
> ), they mention:
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Meanwhile, the hurdy gurdy has come to the United States,
> no doubt in the hands of traveling Frenchmen. It is said
> that around 1850, there were a few hurdy gurdys being played
> in New Orleans. There is mention of one in New York about
> around 1940. There is an early California dance tune
> discovered in Watsonville, California, which is actually a
> French tune called La Valso-vienne. No one knows how it
> originally arrived from France. A friend of mine remembers a
> man coming to town with his hurdy gurdy back in the Oklahoma
> oil days. Any information on the use of the hurdy gurdy in
> the United States which anyone would like to share with us
> is welcomed.
> ...
> BIBLIOGRAPHY:
> BAINES, ANTHONY, European & American Musical
> Instruments, The Viking Press, New York, 1966
> BROCKER, MARIANNE, The Hurdy Gurdy, Archiv Productions,
> Hanover Germany, 1972
> D'ALBERT, ARRIGO, Mendocino, California
> JENKINS, JEAN, Eighteenth Century Musical Instruments:
> France and Britain, Thanet Press, London, 1973
> LEPPERT, RICHARD D., Arcadia at Versailles, Swets &
> Zeitlinger B.V., Amsterdam, 1978
> MUNROW, DAVID, Instruments of the Middle Ages and
> Renaissance, Oxford University Press, London, 1976
> MARCUSE, SIBYL, Musical Instruments: A Comprehensive
> Dictionary, W.W. Norton & Co., New York, 1975
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *** In The Strange Life of the Hurdy Gurdy and other Tales
> ( http://www.exulanten.com/hurdy.html ), there is an
> interesting connection between California and Australia gold
> rush saloon dancing girls and the hurdy gurdy.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...
> The hurdy-gurdy is a string instrument that produces sound
> similar to a bagpipe. The continuous sound is produced by
> the action of a rotating wheel, turned by a hand crank,
> rubbing against strings, just as violin strings are sounded
> by a bow being drawn across them. Some think that the
> instrument was imported from France by the Ukrainian
> Cossacks who took part in The Thirty Years War, but others
> think it originated in the northern part of Iberia some time
> prior to the eleventh century A.D., and still others have
> said it originated with the Moors. It has been around for a
> long time and has a colorful history.
> 
> An English decree from 1651 that travelling musicians had
> proper licenses. "The hurdygurdyists, both men and
> women should be removed completely so that we no longer need
> to see their vulgar and disorderly talk and gestures which
> the travelling musicians delight in cultivating together
> with other impertinances."
> 
> It fell from popularity for a time, then re-emerged as a
> popular novelty among the nobility in the 17th and 18th
> centuries, and older guitars and lutes were sometimes
> rebuilt into hurdy-gurdies. By the 18th century, Haydn wrote
> two concerti for the hurdy-gurdy, Mozart included it in a
> couple of pieces, and its use was later suggested in
> Schubert's piece "Der Leiermann." ("The
> Hurdy-Gurdy Player")
> 
> Then,there was the other definition of a Hurdy Gurdy. Poor
> Hessian farmers in the 1820s made wooden brooms and
> fly-whisks during the winter to sell in summer at nearby
> markets in the surrounding areas, and to increase sales they
> expanded into other German cities and town and eventually
> even to France and England. Then they found that their wares
> sold better if they brought along dancing girls who played
> the Hurdy Gurdy. This gave birth to a sort of 19th century
> "pimp" who would talk the parents of these young
> girls into letting them travel with him and entertain in
> dance halls on the promise they would send a fair portion of
> their earnings home.
> 
> The "Hurdy-Gurdy girls" and "Hessian Broom
> Girls" ended up all over the globe. Many travelled out
> to gold-rush California, others ended up in the Australia
> mining regions. By 1865, laws were passed in Germany to
> prevent the practise of enticing young girls into what was
> considered a debauch life,and the practise, at least in
> public, died out.
> ...
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> *** Following up on this, I checked the Dance History
> Archives at Streetswing.com (
> http://www.streetswing.com/histclub/a1a.htm ), which
> documents all sorts of musical theatrical performances; they
> actually have a distinct category for hurdy gurdy.  If
> I'm reading their table correctly, they document hurdy
> gurdy performances at:
> * the Alabam Night Club, Chicago IL, 1920's
> * the Bird Cage Theater, Tombstone AZ, 1880
> * La Paradis, Washington WA, 1920's
> * Valentino's, New York NY, 1890's
> 
> There was a saloon called The Hurdy-Gurdy House in Virginia
> City MO.
> 
> "The Hurdy-Gurdy Girl" performed at the Wallack
> Theater in 1907.
> 
> There was a dance called the "Hurdy Gurdy",
> possibly originating in France in the 1850's associated
> with "Prostitution, Striptease, Hootchy Hootchi -
> Cootchi" [!]
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> *** The web site The Hurdy-Gurdy Girls (
> http://www.hotpipes.com/hggirls2.html ) has some pictures
> and the disreputable history of the association between
> hurdy gurdy and the American Gold Rush.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> In looking into all of this further, this writer finds it
> intereting that something so once-notorious and spectacular
> as this lengthy and widespread episode seems to have been
> largely overlooked or misunderstood by modern historians.
> For example Susann Palmer, in her excellent reference work
> "The Hurdy Gurdy" (David & Charles: London,
> 1980) bristles at the suggestion of hurdy-gurdies in dance
> halls; she writes, "A supplement to the Oxford English
> Dictionary (1976) humiliates the hurdy gurdy further ... it
> gives as ... used in North America: 'hurdy-gurdy girl, a
> dance hostess in a hurdy-gurdy house, being a disreputable
> type of cheap dance hall.' ... It is almost certain that
> these 'hurdy-gurdy houses' were places where
> mechanical barrel-organs were installed." (pp. 41-42).
> Meanwhile, we find the government of British Columbia,
> Canada exhibiting confusion on its web site dedicated to the
> gold rush there, not about the presence and nature of the
> hurdy-gurdy girls who came
> there during the 1850s (see photo above), but about the
> meaning of the term "hurdy-gurdy" and the
> womens' relationship to the instrument. We at Nova
> Albion Research are continuing to look into this subject and
> will expand these comments as information is uncovered. We
> would also like to bring Kurt Reichmann's
> "Hurdy-Gurdy Girls" exhibition to North America,
> if suitable sponsorship can be found.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> This site highlights the confusion created by the fact that
> "hurdy gurdy" is commonly used to refer to at
> least three vastly different music producing mechanisms:
> - the rotating bow on keyboard stopped stringed instrument
> we play
> - the "organ grinder" music roll pipe or reed
> barrel organ
> - the cranked music box
> 
> 
> *** There's quite a treasure trove of references when
> you use the search terms "hurdy gurdy house" and
> "hurdy gurdy girl" - mostly references to saloons
> and houses of ill-repute!
> http://www.idahostatesman.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060606/NEWS04/606060345/1037
> http://www.phantomranch.net/folkdanc/articles/boysnite.htm
> http://www.suite101.com/lesson.cfm/17161/609/7
> http://www.umwestern.edu/Academics/library/libroth/MHD/vigilantes/DIMSDALE/chapters/chap1.html
> http://www.rootsweb.com/~orgenweb/bios/jamespoindexter.html
> http://www.bookideas.com/reviews/index.cfm?fuseaction=displayReview&id=1454
> http://members.aol.com/Gibson0817/bbasin.htm
> http://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20060616/DAYTON/106160070
> 
> 
> I would guess that there is good material here for a
> Master's Thesis on the history of the hurdy gurdy in
> North America.  I'm particularly intrigued by the
> assertions that the hurdy gurdy was used in Western saloons
> during the 1840's-1880's.  (Does anybody have access
> to a Masters Thesis database?  Maybe somebody has already
> done this?)
> 
> -Gary P.
> 
> 
> Also, here's a tantalizing comment from Sara Johnson:
> 
> Finally, of the Southern Appalachian Culture, Richard
> Trythall says:
> "Respecting the traditional Celtic fondness - almost
> to the point of
> exclusivity - for plucked and bowed string instruments,
> mountain musicians
> gradually integrated  number of new string sounds into
> their music. Over the
> course of the centuries, instruments such as the guitar,
> banjo (an
> instrument of African origin), Hawaiian steel guitar (lap
> and pedal
> versions), dobro, and string bass were added while, of
> course, the primacy
> of the fiddle (the prima donna and "devil" of
> Celtic music)
> and the use of other traditional stringed instruments of
> equally ancient
> lineage such as the mountain dulcimer, the autoharp
> (developed from the
> zither family), the mandolin (developed from the lute
> family), and the
> ghironda (hurdy-gurdy) was continued."
> 
> 
> 

      

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