Howdy, I have a book called "Soiled Doves" by Anne Seagraves. copyright 1994 by Wesanne Publications p.o. box 428 Hayden, Idaho 83835. In the glossary she lists hurdy gurdy as "a form of mechanical hand organ with strings, keys and wooden wheels that produced music when the handle was turned. It was first used in Europe and became a popular musical instrument in America during the 1800s." I find it interesting that first she mentioned that it was a form of mechanical hand organ...and then mentions the strings, keys and wooden wheels. I live in northern California in the gold rush area just off a road called "French Creek". I'm going to do some diggin' and see what I can find about genuine hurdy gurdys. Penny > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 09:29:16 -0700 > From: [email protected] > Subject: [HG-new] Re: Hurdy Gurdy Girls > To: [email protected] > > > > There is no way that there were vielles a roue in > > the > > California Gold Rush. > > Ummmmm Why??? > > Grey Aengus (aka Jim)http://www.greyaengus.com often in error, never in doubt > > > --- On Mon, 3/9/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > > > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > > Subject: [HG-new] Re: Hurdy Gurdy Girls > > To: "hurdygurdy" <[email protected]> > > Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 3:39 PM > > Guys, you know this is really about the barrel organ hurdy > > gurdy, > > right? There is no way that there were vielles a roue in > > the > > California Gold Rush. It is a really fun idea but > > that's about it. > > > > Sharon > > > > On Mar 3, 11:22 am, "Colin" > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I remember that discussion and, if I remember, some > > links to some > > > interesting web pages on the subject (which I forgot > > to bookmark!). > > > I'll be watching too! > > > Colin Hill > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Gary Plazyk" > > <[email protected]> > > > To: <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 5:40 PM > > > Subject: [HG-new] Re: Hurdy Gurdy Girls > > > > > > Hi! > > > > > > I am also interested in following this thread. We > > had some discussion about > > > it on this list in June 2006; following is part of a > > post I made then. > > > > > > Very best regards, > > > > > > -Gary P. (in rural northern Illinois near Marengo, > > between Elgin and > > > Rockford IL) > > > > > > Gary Plazyk, [email protected] > > > Fuzzy Bear > > Farmhttp://profiles.yahoo.com/g_plazykhttp://www.BearCreekMusic.ushttp://www.RavenswoodMorris.org > > > > > > "Music is too important to leave to the > > professionals." -Robert Shaw > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > > Subject: Re: [HG] Hurdy gurdies in American Civil War? > > > Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:05:41 -0500 > > > From: Gary F. Plazyk <[email protected]> > > > Reply-To: [email protected] > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Hi! > > > ... > > > [Omitted: discussion of the hurdy gurdy in the 1937 > > movie _Captains > > > Courageous_ starring Spencer Tracy] > > > ... > > > > > > *** I did some further searching on Google (search > > term "hurdy gurdy" "New > > > Orleans"), and found a few promising lines of > > research. In the Lark in the > > > Morning web site's history of the Hurdy Gurdy > > (http://larkinthemorning.com/article.asp?AI=41&bhcd2=1151589961), > > they > > > mention: > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Meanwhile, the hurdy gurdy has come to the United > > States, no doubt in the > > > hands of traveling Frenchmen. It is said that around > > 1850, there were a few > > > hurdy gurdys being played in New Orleans. There is > > mention of one in New > > > York about around 1940. There is an early California > > dance tune discovered > > > in Watsonville, California, which is actually a French > > tune called La > > > Valso-vienne. No one knows how it originally arrived > > from France. A friend > > > of mine remembers a man coming to town with his hurdy > > gurdy back in the > > > Oklahoma oil days. Any information on the use of the > > hurdy gurdy in the > > > United States which anyone would like to share with us > > is welcomed. > > > ... > > > BIBLIOGRAPHY: > > > BAINES, ANTHONY, European & American Musical > > Instruments, The Viking Press, > > > New York, 1966 > > > BROCKER, MARIANNE, The Hurdy Gurdy, Archiv > > Productions, Hanover Germany, > > > 1972 > > > D'ALBERT, ARRIGO, Mendocino, California > > > JENKINS, JEAN, Eighteenth Century Musical Instruments: > > France and Britain, > > > Thanet Press, London, 1973 > > > LEPPERT, RICHARD D., Arcadia at Versailles, Swets > > & Zeitlinger B.V., > > > Amsterdam, 1978 > > > MUNROW, DAVID, Instruments of the Middle Ages and > > Renaissance, Oxford > > > University Press, London, 1976 > > > MARCUSE, SIBYL, Musical Instruments: A Comprehensive > > Dictionary, W.W. Norton > > > & Co., New York, 1975 > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > *** In The Strange Life of the Hurdy Gurdy and other > > Tales (http://www.exulanten.com/hurdy.html), there is an > > interesting connection > > > between California and Australia gold rush saloon > > dancing girls and the > > > hurdy gurdy. > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ... > > > The hurdy-gurdy is a string instrument that produces > > sound similar to a > > > bagpipe. The continuous sound is produced by the > > action of a rotating wheel, > > > turned by a hand crank, rubbing against strings, just > > as violin strings are > > > sounded by a bow being drawn across them. Some think > > that the instrument was > > > imported from France by the Ukrainian Cossacks who > > took part in The Thirty > > > Years War, but others think it originated in the > > northern part of Iberia > > > some time prior to the eleventh century A.D., and > > still others have said it > > > originated with the Moors. It has been around for a > > long time and has a > > > colorful history. > > > > > > An English decree from 1651 that travelling musicians > > had proper licenses. > > > "The hurdygurdyists, both men and women should be > > removed completely so that > > > we no longer need to see their vulgar and disorderly > > talk and gestures which > > > the travelling musicians delight in cultivating > > together with other > > > impertinances." > > > > > > It fell from popularity for a time, then re-emerged as > > a popular novelty > > > among the nobility in the 17th and 18th centuries, and > > older guitars and > > > lutes were sometimes rebuilt into hurdy-gurdies. By > > the 18th century, Haydn > > > wrote two concerti for the hurdy-gurdy, Mozart > > included it in a couple of > > > pieces, and its use was later suggested in > > Schubert's piece "Der Leiermann." > > > ("The Hurdy-Gurdy Player") > > > > > > Then,there was the other definition of a Hurdy Gurdy. > > Poor Hessian farmers > > > in the 1820s made wooden brooms and fly-whisks during > > the winter to sell in > > > summer at nearby markets in the surrounding areas, and > > to increase sales > > > they expanded into other German cities and town and > > eventually even to > > > France and England. Then they found that their wares > > sold better if they > > > brought along dancing girls who played the Hurdy > > Gurdy. This gave birth to a > > > sort of 19th century "pimp" who would talk > > the parents of these young girls > > > into letting them travel with him and entertain in > > dance halls on the > > > promise they would send a fair portion of their > > earnings home. > > > > > > The "Hurdy-Gurdy girls" and "Hessian > > Broom Girls" ended up all over the > > > globe. Many travelled out to gold-rush California, > > others ended up in the > > > Australia mining regions. By 1865, laws were passed in > > Germany to prevent > > > the practise of enticing young girls into what was > > considered a debauch > > > life,and the practise, at least in public, died out. > > > ... > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > *** Following up on this, I checked the Dance History > > Archives at > > > Streetswing.com > > (http://www.streetswing.com/histclub/a1a.htm), which > > > documents all sorts of musical theatrical > > performances; they actually have a > > > distinct category for hurdy gurdy. If I'm > > reading their table correctly, > > > they document hurdy gurdy performances at: > > > * the Alabam Night Club, Chicago IL, 1920's > > > * the Bird Cage Theater, Tombstone AZ, 1880 > > > * La Paradis, Washington WA, 1920's > > > * Valentino's, New York NY, 1890's > > > > > > There was a saloon called The Hurdy-Gurdy House in > > Virginia City MO. > > > > > > "The Hurdy-Gurdy Girl" performed at the > > Wallack Theater in 1907. > > > > > > There was a dance called the "Hurdy Gurdy", > > possibly originating in France > > > in the 1850's associated with "Prostitution, > > Striptease, Hootchy Hootchi - > > > Cootchi" [!] > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > *** The web site The Hurdy-Gurdy Girls > > (http://www.hotpipes.com/hggirls2.html) has some pictures > > and the > > > disreputable history of the association between hurdy > > gurdy and the American > > > Gold Rush. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > In looking into all of this further, this writer finds > > it intereting that > > > something so once-notorious and spectacular as this > > lengthy and widespread > > > episode seems to have been largely overlooked or > > misunderstood by modern > > > historians. For example Susann Palmer, in her > > excellent reference work "The > > > Hurdy Gurdy" (David & Charles: London, 1980) > > bristles at the suggestion of > > > hurdy-gurdies in dance halls; she writes, "A > > supplement to the Oxford > > > English Dictionary (1976) humiliates the hurdy gurdy > > further ... it gives as > > > ... used in North America: 'hurdy-gurdy girl, a > > dance hostess in a > > > hurdy-gurdy house, being a disreputable type of cheap > > dance hall.' ... It is > > > almost certain that these 'hurdy-gurdy houses' > > were places where mechanical > > > barrel-organs were installed." (pp. 41-42). > > Meanwhile, we find the > > > government of British Columbia, Canada exhibiting > > confusion on its web site > > > dedicated to the gold rush there, not about the > > presence and nature of the > > > hurdy-gurdy girls who came > > > there during the 1850s (see photo above), but about > > the meaning of the term > > > "hurdy-gurdy" and the womens' > > relationship to the instrument. We at Nova > > > Albion Research are continuing to look into this > > subject and will expand > > > these comments as information is uncovered. We would > > also like to bring Kurt > > > Reichmann's "Hurdy-Gurdy Girls" > > exhibition to North America, if suitable > > > sponsorship can be found. > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > This site highlights the confusion created by the fact > > that "hurdy gurdy" is > > > commonly used to refer to at least three vastly > > different music producing > > > mechanisms: > > > - the rotating bow on keyboard stopped stringed > > instrument we play > > > - the "organ grinder" music roll pipe or > > reed barrel organ > > > - the cranked music box > > > > > > *** There's quite a treasure trove of references > > when you use the search > > > terms "hurdy gurdy house" and "hurdy > > gurdy girl" - mostly references to > > > saloons and houses of > > ill-repute!http://www.idahostatesman.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060606/NEW...http://www.phantomranch.net/folkdanc/articles/boysnite.htmhttp://www.suite101.com/lesson.cfm/17161/609/7http://www.umwestern.edu/Academics/library/libroth/MHD/vigilantes/DIM...http://www.rootsweb.com/~orgenweb/bios/jamespoindexter.htmlhttp://www.bookideas.com/reviews/index.cfm?fuseaction=displayReview&i...http://members.aol.com/Gibson0817/bbasin.htmhttp://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20060616/DAYTON/106160070 > > > > > > I would guess that there is good material here for a > > Master's Thesis on the > > > history of the hurdy gurdy in North America. I'm > > particularly intrigued by > > > the assertions that the hurdy gurdy was used in > > Western saloons during the > > > 1840's-1880's. (Does anybody have access to > > a Masters Thesis database? > > > Maybe somebody has already done this?) > > > > > > -Gary P. > > > > > > Also, here's a tantalizing comment from Sara > > Johnson: > > > > > > Finally, of the Southern Appalachian Culture, Richard > > Trythall says: > > > "Respecting the traditional > > > > > > ... > > > > > > read more ยป > > > > > > >
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