Guys, you know this is really about the barrel organ hurdy gurdy, right? There is no way that there were vielles a roue in the California Gold Rush. It is a really fun idea but that's about it.
Sharon On Mar 3, 11:22 am, "Colin" <[email protected]> wrote: > I remember that discussion and, if I remember, some links to some > interesting web pages on the subject (which I forgot to bookmark!). > I'll be watching too! > Colin Hill > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Plazyk" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 5:40 PM > Subject: [HG-new] Re: Hurdy Gurdy Girls > > Hi! > > I am also interested in following this thread. We had some discussion about > it on this list in June 2006; following is part of a post I made then. > > Very best regards, > > -Gary P. (in rural northern Illinois near Marengo, between Elgin and > Rockford IL) > > Gary Plazyk, [email protected] > Fuzzy Bear > Farmhttp://profiles.yahoo.com/g_plazykhttp://www.BearCreekMusic.ushttp://www.RavenswoodMorris.org > > "Music is too important to leave to the professionals." -Robert Shaw > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [HG] Hurdy gurdies in American Civil War? > Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:05:41 -0500 > From: Gary F. Plazyk <[email protected]> > Reply-To: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > > Hi! > ... > [Omitted: discussion of the hurdy gurdy in the 1937 movie _Captains > Courageous_ starring Spencer Tracy] > ... > > *** I did some further searching on Google (search term "hurdy gurdy" "New > Orleans"), and found a few promising lines of research. In the Lark in the > Morning web site's history of the Hurdy Gurdy > (http://larkinthemorning.com/article.asp?AI=41&bhcd2=1151589961), they > mention: > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Meanwhile, the hurdy gurdy has come to the United States, no doubt in the > hands of traveling Frenchmen. It is said that around 1850, there were a few > hurdy gurdys being played in New Orleans. There is mention of one in New > York about around 1940. There is an early California dance tune discovered > in Watsonville, California, which is actually a French tune called La > Valso-vienne. No one knows how it originally arrived from France. A friend > of mine remembers a man coming to town with his hurdy gurdy back in the > Oklahoma oil days. Any information on the use of the hurdy gurdy in the > United States which anyone would like to share with us is welcomed. > ... > BIBLIOGRAPHY: > BAINES, ANTHONY, European & American Musical Instruments, The Viking Press, > New York, 1966 > BROCKER, MARIANNE, The Hurdy Gurdy, Archiv Productions, Hanover Germany, > 1972 > D'ALBERT, ARRIGO, Mendocino, California > JENKINS, JEAN, Eighteenth Century Musical Instruments: France and Britain, > Thanet Press, London, 1973 > LEPPERT, RICHARD D., Arcadia at Versailles, Swets & Zeitlinger B.V., > Amsterdam, 1978 > MUNROW, DAVID, Instruments of the Middle Ages and Renaissance, Oxford > University Press, London, 1976 > MARCUSE, SIBYL, Musical Instruments: A Comprehensive Dictionary, W.W. Norton > & Co., New York, 1975 > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > *** In The Strange Life of the Hurdy Gurdy and other Tales > (http://www.exulanten.com/hurdy.html), there is an interesting connection > between California and Australia gold rush saloon dancing girls and the > hurdy gurdy. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ... > The hurdy-gurdy is a string instrument that produces sound similar to a > bagpipe. The continuous sound is produced by the action of a rotating wheel, > turned by a hand crank, rubbing against strings, just as violin strings are > sounded by a bow being drawn across them. Some think that the instrument was > imported from France by the Ukrainian Cossacks who took part in The Thirty > Years War, but others think it originated in the northern part of Iberia > some time prior to the eleventh century A.D., and still others have said it > originated with the Moors. It has been around for a long time and has a > colorful history. > > An English decree from 1651 that travelling musicians had proper licenses. > "The hurdygurdyists, both men and women should be removed completely so that > we no longer need to see their vulgar and disorderly talk and gestures which > the travelling musicians delight in cultivating together with other > impertinances." > > It fell from popularity for a time, then re-emerged as a popular novelty > among the nobility in the 17th and 18th centuries, and older guitars and > lutes were sometimes rebuilt into hurdy-gurdies. By the 18th century, Haydn > wrote two concerti for the hurdy-gurdy, Mozart included it in a couple of > pieces, and its use was later suggested in Schubert's piece "Der Leiermann." > ("The Hurdy-Gurdy Player") > > Then,there was the other definition of a Hurdy Gurdy. Poor Hessian farmers > in the 1820s made wooden brooms and fly-whisks during the winter to sell in > summer at nearby markets in the surrounding areas, and to increase sales > they expanded into other German cities and town and eventually even to > France and England. Then they found that their wares sold better if they > brought along dancing girls who played the Hurdy Gurdy. This gave birth to a > sort of 19th century "pimp" who would talk the parents of these young girls > into letting them travel with him and entertain in dance halls on the > promise they would send a fair portion of their earnings home. > > The "Hurdy-Gurdy girls" and "Hessian Broom Girls" ended up all over the > globe. Many travelled out to gold-rush California, others ended up in the > Australia mining regions. By 1865, laws were passed in Germany to prevent > the practise of enticing young girls into what was considered a debauch > life,and the practise, at least in public, died out. > ... > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > *** Following up on this, I checked the Dance History Archives at > Streetswing.com (http://www.streetswing.com/histclub/a1a.htm), which > documents all sorts of musical theatrical performances; they actually have a > distinct category for hurdy gurdy. If I'm reading their table correctly, > they document hurdy gurdy performances at: > * the Alabam Night Club, Chicago IL, 1920's > * the Bird Cage Theater, Tombstone AZ, 1880 > * La Paradis, Washington WA, 1920's > * Valentino's, New York NY, 1890's > > There was a saloon called The Hurdy-Gurdy House in Virginia City MO. > > "The Hurdy-Gurdy Girl" performed at the Wallack Theater in 1907. > > There was a dance called the "Hurdy Gurdy", possibly originating in France > in the 1850's associated with "Prostitution, Striptease, Hootchy Hootchi - > Cootchi" [!] > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > *** The web site The Hurdy-Gurdy Girls > (http://www.hotpipes.com/hggirls2.html) has some pictures and the > disreputable history of the association between hurdy gurdy and the American > Gold Rush. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > In looking into all of this further, this writer finds it intereting that > something so once-notorious and spectacular as this lengthy and widespread > episode seems to have been largely overlooked or misunderstood by modern > historians. For example Susann Palmer, in her excellent reference work "The > Hurdy Gurdy" (David & Charles: London, 1980) bristles at the suggestion of > hurdy-gurdies in dance halls; she writes, "A supplement to the Oxford > English Dictionary (1976) humiliates the hurdy gurdy further ... it gives as > ... used in North America: 'hurdy-gurdy girl, a dance hostess in a > hurdy-gurdy house, being a disreputable type of cheap dance hall.' ... It is > almost certain that these 'hurdy-gurdy houses' were places where mechanical > barrel-organs were installed." (pp. 41-42). Meanwhile, we find the > government of British Columbia, Canada exhibiting confusion on its web site > dedicated to the gold rush there, not about the presence and nature of the > hurdy-gurdy girls who came > there during the 1850s (see photo above), but about the meaning of the term > "hurdy-gurdy" and the womens' relationship to the instrument. We at Nova > Albion Research are continuing to look into this subject and will expand > these comments as information is uncovered. We would also like to bring Kurt > Reichmann's "Hurdy-Gurdy Girls" exhibition to North America, if suitable > sponsorship can be found. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This site highlights the confusion created by the fact that "hurdy gurdy" is > commonly used to refer to at least three vastly different music producing > mechanisms: > - the rotating bow on keyboard stopped stringed instrument we play > - the "organ grinder" music roll pipe or reed barrel organ > - the cranked music box > > *** There's quite a treasure trove of references when you use the search > terms "hurdy gurdy house" and "hurdy gurdy girl" - mostly references to > saloons and houses of > ill-repute!http://www.idahostatesman.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060606/NEW...http://www.phantomranch.net/folkdanc/articles/boysnite.htmhttp://www.suite101.com/lesson.cfm/17161/609/7http://www.umwestern.edu/Academics/library/libroth/MHD/vigilantes/DIM...http://www.rootsweb.com/~orgenweb/bios/jamespoindexter.htmlhttp://www.bookideas.com/reviews/index.cfm?fuseaction=displayReview&i...http://members.aol.com/Gibson0817/bbasin.htmhttp://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20060616/DAYTON/106160070 > > I would guess that there is good material here for a Master's Thesis on the > history of the hurdy gurdy in North America. I'm particularly intrigued by > the assertions that the hurdy gurdy was used in Western saloons during the > 1840's-1880's. (Does anybody have access to a Masters Thesis database? > Maybe somebody has already done this?) > > -Gary P. > > Also, here's a tantalizing comment from Sara Johnson: > > Finally, of the Southern Appalachian Culture, Richard Trythall says: > "Respecting the traditional > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hurdygurdy" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy The rules of posting, courtesy, and other list information may be found at http://hurdygurdy.com/mailinglist/index.htm. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
