There is no way that there were vielles a roue in > the > California Gold Rush.
Ummmmm Why??? Grey Aengus (aka Jim)http://www.greyaengus.com often in error, never in doubt --- On Mon, 3/9/09, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote: > From: [email protected] <[email protected]> > Subject: [HG-new] Re: Hurdy Gurdy Girls > To: "hurdygurdy" <[email protected]> > Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 3:39 PM > Guys, you know this is really about the barrel organ hurdy > gurdy, > right? There is no way that there were vielles a roue in > the > California Gold Rush. It is a really fun idea but > that's about it. > > Sharon > > On Mar 3, 11:22 am, "Colin" > <[email protected]> wrote: > > I remember that discussion and, if I remember, some > links to some > > interesting web pages on the subject (which I forgot > to bookmark!). > > I'll be watching too! > > Colin Hill > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gary Plazyk" > <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 5:40 PM > > Subject: [HG-new] Re: Hurdy Gurdy Girls > > > > Hi! > > > > I am also interested in following this thread. We > had some discussion about > > it on this list in June 2006; following is part of a > post I made then. > > > > Very best regards, > > > > -Gary P. (in rural northern Illinois near Marengo, > between Elgin and > > Rockford IL) > > > > Gary Plazyk, [email protected] > > Fuzzy Bear > Farmhttp://profiles.yahoo.com/g_plazykhttp://www.BearCreekMusic.ushttp://www.RavenswoodMorris.org > > > > "Music is too important to leave to the > professionals." -Robert Shaw > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: Re: [HG] Hurdy gurdies in American Civil War? > > Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2006 11:05:41 -0500 > > From: Gary F. Plazyk <[email protected]> > > Reply-To: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > > > Hi! > > ... > > [Omitted: discussion of the hurdy gurdy in the 1937 > movie _Captains > > Courageous_ starring Spencer Tracy] > > ... > > > > *** I did some further searching on Google (search > term "hurdy gurdy" "New > > Orleans"), and found a few promising lines of > research. In the Lark in the > > Morning web site's history of the Hurdy Gurdy > (http://larkinthemorning.com/article.asp?AI=41&bhcd2=1151589961), > they > > mention: > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Meanwhile, the hurdy gurdy has come to the United > States, no doubt in the > > hands of traveling Frenchmen. It is said that around > 1850, there were a few > > hurdy gurdys being played in New Orleans. There is > mention of one in New > > York about around 1940. There is an early California > dance tune discovered > > in Watsonville, California, which is actually a French > tune called La > > Valso-vienne. No one knows how it originally arrived > from France. A friend > > of mine remembers a man coming to town with his hurdy > gurdy back in the > > Oklahoma oil days. Any information on the use of the > hurdy gurdy in the > > United States which anyone would like to share with us > is welcomed. > > ... > > BIBLIOGRAPHY: > > BAINES, ANTHONY, European & American Musical > Instruments, The Viking Press, > > New York, 1966 > > BROCKER, MARIANNE, The Hurdy Gurdy, Archiv > Productions, Hanover Germany, > > 1972 > > D'ALBERT, ARRIGO, Mendocino, California > > JENKINS, JEAN, Eighteenth Century Musical Instruments: > France and Britain, > > Thanet Press, London, 1973 > > LEPPERT, RICHARD D., Arcadia at Versailles, Swets > & Zeitlinger B.V., > > Amsterdam, 1978 > > MUNROW, DAVID, Instruments of the Middle Ages and > Renaissance, Oxford > > University Press, London, 1976 > > MARCUSE, SIBYL, Musical Instruments: A Comprehensive > Dictionary, W.W. Norton > > & Co., New York, 1975 > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > *** In The Strange Life of the Hurdy Gurdy and other > Tales (http://www.exulanten.com/hurdy.html), there is an > interesting connection > > between California and Australia gold rush saloon > dancing girls and the > > hurdy gurdy. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ... > > The hurdy-gurdy is a string instrument that produces > sound similar to a > > bagpipe. The continuous sound is produced by the > action of a rotating wheel, > > turned by a hand crank, rubbing against strings, just > as violin strings are > > sounded by a bow being drawn across them. Some think > that the instrument was > > imported from France by the Ukrainian Cossacks who > took part in The Thirty > > Years War, but others think it originated in the > northern part of Iberia > > some time prior to the eleventh century A.D., and > still others have said it > > originated with the Moors. It has been around for a > long time and has a > > colorful history. > > > > An English decree from 1651 that travelling musicians > had proper licenses. > > "The hurdygurdyists, both men and women should be > removed completely so that > > we no longer need to see their vulgar and disorderly > talk and gestures which > > the travelling musicians delight in cultivating > together with other > > impertinances." > > > > It fell from popularity for a time, then re-emerged as > a popular novelty > > among the nobility in the 17th and 18th centuries, and > older guitars and > > lutes were sometimes rebuilt into hurdy-gurdies. By > the 18th century, Haydn > > wrote two concerti for the hurdy-gurdy, Mozart > included it in a couple of > > pieces, and its use was later suggested in > Schubert's piece "Der Leiermann." > > ("The Hurdy-Gurdy Player") > > > > Then,there was the other definition of a Hurdy Gurdy. > Poor Hessian farmers > > in the 1820s made wooden brooms and fly-whisks during > the winter to sell in > > summer at nearby markets in the surrounding areas, and > to increase sales > > they expanded into other German cities and town and > eventually even to > > France and England. Then they found that their wares > sold better if they > > brought along dancing girls who played the Hurdy > Gurdy. This gave birth to a > > sort of 19th century "pimp" who would talk > the parents of these young girls > > into letting them travel with him and entertain in > dance halls on the > > promise they would send a fair portion of their > earnings home. > > > > The "Hurdy-Gurdy girls" and "Hessian > Broom Girls" ended up all over the > > globe. Many travelled out to gold-rush California, > others ended up in the > > Australia mining regions. By 1865, laws were passed in > Germany to prevent > > the practise of enticing young girls into what was > considered a debauch > > life,and the practise, at least in public, died out. > > ... > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > *** Following up on this, I checked the Dance History > Archives at > > Streetswing.com > (http://www.streetswing.com/histclub/a1a.htm), which > > documents all sorts of musical theatrical > performances; they actually have a > > distinct category for hurdy gurdy. If I'm > reading their table correctly, > > they document hurdy gurdy performances at: > > * the Alabam Night Club, Chicago IL, 1920's > > * the Bird Cage Theater, Tombstone AZ, 1880 > > * La Paradis, Washington WA, 1920's > > * Valentino's, New York NY, 1890's > > > > There was a saloon called The Hurdy-Gurdy House in > Virginia City MO. > > > > "The Hurdy-Gurdy Girl" performed at the > Wallack Theater in 1907. > > > > There was a dance called the "Hurdy Gurdy", > possibly originating in France > > in the 1850's associated with "Prostitution, > Striptease, Hootchy Hootchi - > > Cootchi" [!] > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > *** The web site The Hurdy-Gurdy Girls > (http://www.hotpipes.com/hggirls2.html) has some pictures > and the > > disreputable history of the association between hurdy > gurdy and the American > > Gold Rush. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > In looking into all of this further, this writer finds > it intereting that > > something so once-notorious and spectacular as this > lengthy and widespread > > episode seems to have been largely overlooked or > misunderstood by modern > > historians. For example Susann Palmer, in her > excellent reference work "The > > Hurdy Gurdy" (David & Charles: London, 1980) > bristles at the suggestion of > > hurdy-gurdies in dance halls; she writes, "A > supplement to the Oxford > > English Dictionary (1976) humiliates the hurdy gurdy > further ... it gives as > > ... used in North America: 'hurdy-gurdy girl, a > dance hostess in a > > hurdy-gurdy house, being a disreputable type of cheap > dance hall.' ... It is > > almost certain that these 'hurdy-gurdy houses' > were places where mechanical > > barrel-organs were installed." (pp. 41-42). > Meanwhile, we find the > > government of British Columbia, Canada exhibiting > confusion on its web site > > dedicated to the gold rush there, not about the > presence and nature of the > > hurdy-gurdy girls who came > > there during the 1850s (see photo above), but about > the meaning of the term > > "hurdy-gurdy" and the womens' > relationship to the instrument. We at Nova > > Albion Research are continuing to look into this > subject and will expand > > these comments as information is uncovered. We would > also like to bring Kurt > > Reichmann's "Hurdy-Gurdy Girls" > exhibition to North America, if suitable > > sponsorship can be found. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > This site highlights the confusion created by the fact > that "hurdy gurdy" is > > commonly used to refer to at least three vastly > different music producing > > mechanisms: > > - the rotating bow on keyboard stopped stringed > instrument we play > > - the "organ grinder" music roll pipe or > reed barrel organ > > - the cranked music box > > > > *** There's quite a treasure trove of references > when you use the search > > terms "hurdy gurdy house" and "hurdy > gurdy girl" - mostly references to > > saloons and houses of > ill-repute!http://www.idahostatesman.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060606/NEW...http://www.phantomranch.net/folkdanc/articles/boysnite.htmhttp://www.suite101.com/lesson.cfm/17161/609/7http://www.umwestern.edu/Academics/library/libroth/MHD/vigilantes/DIM...http://www.rootsweb.com/~orgenweb/bios/jamespoindexter.htmlhttp://www.bookideas.com/reviews/index.cfm?fuseaction=displayReview&i...http://members.aol.com/Gibson0817/bbasin.htmhttp://www.nevadaappeal.com/article/20060616/DAYTON/106160070 > > > > I would guess that there is good material here for a > Master's Thesis on the > > history of the hurdy gurdy in North America. I'm > particularly intrigued by > > the assertions that the hurdy gurdy was used in > Western saloons during the > > 1840's-1880's. (Does anybody have access to > a Masters Thesis database? > > Maybe somebody has already done this?) > > > > -Gary P. > > > > Also, here's a tantalizing comment from Sara > Johnson: > > > > Finally, of the Southern Appalachian Culture, Richard > Trythall says: > > "Respecting the traditional > > > > ... > > > > read more » > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hurdygurdy" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hurdygurdy The rules of posting, courtesy, and other list information may be found at http://hurdygurdy.com/mailinglist/index.htm. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
