Well, there aren't any IBM CEs anymore. IBM, of course, discontinued the Customer Engineer (CE) title in the U.S. many years ago replacing it with the title of Support Services Representative. Likewise, the old IBM title for a Systems Engineer (SE) changed into such exciting titles such as FTSS (Field Technical Sales Specialist) and CTS (Customer Technical Specialist). These latter changes document the reduction in scope of the SEs job as the focus shifted more and more on sales activities and less on providing support to the client.
As to the original question of alternative job titles for Systems Programmers, I'm seeing it becoming more common for the "Most Exalted z/OS Person" (which is one of my suggestions for the job title) is now described as a System Analysist or Mainframe Analysist. -----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joe Monk Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2021 4:35 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: EXTERNAL EMAIL: Re: System Programmer Titles You guys are doing a lot of disservice to IBM customer engineers everywhere. Thomas Watson named the person who services an IBM piece of equipment a customer engineer in 1942. https://www.practicaladultinsights.com/what-does-a-customer-engineer-do.htm Joe On Sat, Oct 16, 2021 at 6:28 AM Radoslaw Skorupka <[email protected]> wrote: > Definitely. When I see soldering, screws, etc. I think about > technician, not engineer. > A person who assemble or fix CPC is technician. > > > > > I mean Polish definitions. > Technician is high school certificate, similar to baccalaureate. > Engineer is technical university graduate, usually got with master of > sciences. > > Our school system (simplified): > First school, 8 years. Start at 7 years old. > Secondary school 4-5 years. Ended with baccalaureate. > University, usually 5 years. Ended with MsC and Engineer for technical > universities. > > > -- > Radoslaw Skorupka > Lodz, Poland > > > > Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw pisze: > > I think you are possibly misunderstanding what an engineer does. > > > > The root of the word engineer is in the Latin word "ingeniare" > (inventor, designer) and is more associated with things that are > 'ingenious'. So our engineers are more closely associated with design, > rather than screwdrivers and soldering irons. > > > > Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw > > https://rsclweb.com > > ‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’ > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> On > Behalf Of Skip Robinson > > Sent: 15 October 2021 23:26 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: EXTERNAL EMAIL: Re: System Programmer Titles > > > > A point of clarification. A lot of this revolves around the day to > > day > meaning of 'engineer'. I have never encountered a shop that sends out > systems MTS folks to to open up a hardware box with screwdriver and > soldering iron in order to upgrade or downgrade or repair a Z box. > That practice is SOP in the wienieware world, not in the Z world. > > > > So I repeat: what does a Z systems engineer do that a Z sysprog does > > not > do? > > > > On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 2:01 PM CM Poncelet <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Hi Bruce, > >> > >> I am in the UK. AFAIK CEng is protected by law world-wide > >> (Washington > >> Accord) but not all countries or states recognise it. E.g. Texas > >> admits only the TX PE (Professional Engineer) accreditation and > >> prohibits using the title 'engineer' if not PE licensed, whereas > >> Idaho does recognise CEng if held for 8+ years. It can be a bit > >> complicated. > >> > >> > >> https://www.engc.org.uk/glossary-faqs/frequently-asked-questions/st > >> atu > >> s-of-engineers/ > >> > >> Cheers, Chris > >> > >> > >> > >> On 15/10/2021 05:30, Bruce Hewson wrote: > >>> Hi Chris, > >>> > >>> In which country or countries is your statement correct? > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, 14 Oct 2021 21:25:10 +0100, CM Poncelet > >>> <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >>>> Anyone can call himself an engineer (e.g. a motor mechanic etc.) > >>>> It is illegal for anyone to call himself a *Chartered Engineer* > >>>> (CEng) without being qualified and registered as such with an > >>>> accredited Engineering institution. HTH. > >>>> > >>>> Chris Poncelet CEng MBCS CITP > >>>> > >>> Regards > >>> Bruce > >>> > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [email protected] with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
