I, OTOH, was appalled by C ever since it came out, much preferring PL/I. As for assembler, there are a lot of things that I can do in a single statement that are awkward and verbose in C. Further, 95% of my experience has been with macro assemblers, and C's macro language looks like a joke.
-- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 ________________________________________ From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Tom Brennan [t...@tombrennansoftware.com] Sent: Monday, April 3, 2023 1:03 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Fascinating Interview with Steve Jobs [non-mainframe] - now Gary Kildall I actually always liked C, maybe because its original simplicity reminded me of Assembler. I mean, what other language can you goof up a length value or pointer and overwrite a bunch of other data areas by mistake? Oh yeah, Assembler! On 4/2/2023 9:29 PM, Clem Clarke wrote: > In my mind, Gary Kildall was a genius. Not only for his operating > systems, but he also had PL/I running on PCs when everyone else said it > was impossible. Now, we are stuck with "C". > > Also, Kildall had a GUI called GEM out years before Windows. > > > Unfortunately, the same man that effectively killed that OS/2 and forced > us all to suffer through Win95 and Win98 etc stopped much innovation. > > When the IBM PC came out, I used DRI's PL/I when I converted the > mainframe version of Jol to run on the PC. It did pretty much > everything a System Programmer would need to do, far more simply than C > (in my opinion). Unfortunately, it only ran in the 8086 small model and > after Kildall's death with no possibility of a large or flat memory > model, I felt I had no alternative but to convert the Jol code to C, > which took many years. C's inefficient and dangerous string handling > routines took ages to overcome. > > With regard to Kildall's flying when IBM went out, some old notes I > looked at the other day place a slightly interpretation on it. Yes, > apparently he was flying in the morning - delivering software to a > customer. He apparently met with IBM in the afternoon but IBM wanted > them to sign a nondisclosure agreement which was very one sided. And it > seems that IBM wanted to pay Kildall a one time payment for his > operating system, instead of the more usual royalty agreement, which was > not seen as acceptable. > > And it seems Bill Gates' mother was either on IBM's board, or was was > closely associated with someone who was. One comment from the short > video is: > ===== > " What people seem to forget is that Bill Gate's mother worked on the > board of IBM > and Bill Gates Sr. was very well connected. (and was also on the board > of Planned parenthood) > "Bill Gates is also a Rockafeller's grandson.. > "so everything was pretty much set up for him to succeed." > ===== > > > Who knows? Is there anyone in IBM who would know the truth? > > Here are three videos that go into it in greater depth. "The Man Who > COULD Have Been Bill Gates [Gary Kildall]" > 1. A 15 minute video: > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FsDIK-C6dGks&data=05%7C01%7Csmetz3%40gmu.edu%7Cc63d27c90b144efa634908db3400e604%7C9e857255df574c47a0c00546460380cb%7C0%7C0%7C638160950699730403%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=yoU7IJccX7g7HRdcJ5qFfbZBFrbSatKodinB8%2F3ovc0%3D&reserved=0 > 2. > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.org%2Fdetails%2FGaryKild&data=05%7C01%7Csmetz3%40gmu.edu%7Cc63d27c90b144efa634908db3400e604%7C9e857255df574c47a0c00546460380cb%7C0%7C0%7C638160950699730403%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8ONCrjIZuUe4%2FbNdZ2FpTOxQ36tv2TpwzgUwFea%2B%2FbE%3D&reserved=0 > 3. an hour and a half video: > The comments by people who have seen them are very interesting. > > Clem Clarke > http://secure-web.cisco.com/1sAAwxsVkmZe9HzPD7hFsNCcgsijjn2RmCx0BKUUQf-AIrg01DcFQTAAYnoSCOUZqQQNGyidMrKbu49HCjMcl-yxsQ0mqSwF1RMDIL7r7TuosqcBxnbhMgUB_ZeYPj0obtzOkaPJLl-cbSp7HqT5cy-cwChCPIZkZOFRHz26IPzW8mORUQ7qLZOQRz50Tgcw0XOg-BF9ggSAR0NxlwUrVNGnz_S6W5-Qd05mUKkzt5HO8Do1Yv30NUluwzUXGFM8wpVDDJQ-7Y_ug0qoNFb3CpQoBETp4eKffiIxNfS5PwmPy-Llug4sZLeJc5f2Lb0E9AIIG0gEXepwP1zr-I1cmyqvr86TVmkyZr9Ux99qWdPvAtBhguQ-Qr98qoyAOdPA1PMEtzmq3Oxv2HqmNZktdIJdLKvIG5WDANwBBoXYT6JilyKxpgvAsKzHJwovuFtRQ/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.Oscar-Jol.com > > Mike Schwab wrote: >> The terms of the contract with ALL the computer customers was if he >> dropped his price to one vendor, he would have to refund the >> difference to all other vendors. And his 8086 was not ready yet. >> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FGary_Kildall&data=05%7C01%7Csmetz3%40gmu.edu%7Cc63d27c90b144efa634908db3400e604%7C9e857255df574c47a0c00546460380cb%7C0%7C0%7C638160950699730403%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=UU1Bc8lVXkdUvaOeQzqA83%2FXh6SIGIAWTEFh6aQ6ra0%3D&reserved=0 >> >> On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 8:03 AM Jay Maynard <jaymayn...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> I'm not so sure about Kildall...anyone who snubs a business meeting with >>> IBM to go flying (a worthy endeavor in and of itself) isn't businessman >>> enough to compete with Jobs and Gates. >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 3:05 AM Wayne Bickerdike <wayn...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Very interesting if one-sided interview. He gives Steve Wozniak very >>>> little >>>> credit although Woz really was the inventor and Jobs the salesman in >>>> the >>>> partnership. >>>> >>>> I read Sculley's autobiography many years ago (From Pepsi to Apple). It >>>> doesn't describe events quite the same way. >>>> >>>> Nevertheless, good that it has surfaced at a time where nobody gets >>>> sued >>>> for defamation. >>>> >>>> After I left IBM in 1979 I wrote some applications on the Apple II. >>>> It was >>>> a challenge and from an electrical engineering point of view, it was >>>> poor >>>> with a weak power supply that ran the CPU, Floppy drives which >>>> caused the >>>> screen to wobble when operating. >>>> >>>> At the same time Apple were turning out the IIE, there was a host of >>>> other >>>> nicer systems, such as the Cromemco System 3 and Altos 8000 which >>>> ran CP/M >>>> and MP/M and had a more robust construction. >>>> >>>> It was a shame that Gary Kildall died so young, he would have been a >>>> great >>>> competitor for Jobs and Gates. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 29, 2023 at 9:28 AM Charles Mills <charl...@mcn.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> A friend shared this with me and I thought it was just >>>>> extraordinary. It >>>>> is not "mainframe" but his comments on what happens when the >>>>> marketeers >>>> run >>>>> a tech company will resonate with many of us. It’s a fairly long read. >>>> It’s >>>>> a transcript of a long interview done for a TV show – only a few >>>>> minutes >>>>> were actually used – by Bob Cringely, and thought to be lost. Steve >>>>> Jobs >>>>> was at the time (1995) running NeXT, which he was to sell to Apple a >>>> month >>>>> later. It is a fascinating read. >>>>> >>>>> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1Nfarr_Tjkl9iMJ8XHf7V5WnH2tKoSNvJiyDsjIoZXZYIQCEQM1NGE-t8Ic9GsKXTtorPPwXHO1g5-n9_n_xYcMqg6irvRfV0uv4IfvX2L54U2tSc5THrfwOJuyTExaqelP_Eq2bLO6IuVKaOdnu3V9GPBWp27KcTP9icS-RL7HXOs0Ytpy7BEdu4EYB1PK-FFLYi4sGRoe6-SF0E9SY4qLRvZUFo-6OK9PEgNTCOPmfDP31eCXIJ6h9ezHcA4gVQNebovm-8sKoNMe_NjZrbZ5VP5buXLzglf_sH0Ax4PKdAJ7FOxVDSHdShY6r62kSIrsbDV6-8C7CYEaSN5aeSk9ILdaKZv3jpIOVCeuYFDqxQobqJeSsJpFHoujdjNw40LMRD80TU5DqfsXUJgrG3xvg89yb6P9gvJZ13Pc0lW14/https%3A%2F%2Fsameerbajaj.com%2Fjobs%2F >>>>> >>>>> Charles >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Wayne V. Bickerdike >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jay Maynard >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
