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Then
we can agree to disagree. I run mail servers for offices, not
ISPs. I am sure it would be different then in that regard if I did, as I
said in my last post. We normally don't do business with anyone that uses
a hotmail, AOL, yahoo or the like account for business communications. We
usually tell them that if they can afford to do busniness, they can afford to do
it right and get their own mail servers, bandwidth...yadda yadda yadda. In
advance, if they insist on using a AOL, Hotmail MSN, or Yahoo acount (or
something similar) we ask them to submit it in adavnce so we can whitelist
it. I have only had to do that twice. Since then, both of those
comanies have decided to get their own mail servers and
bandwidth.
Travis
Travis,
Not that I want to get into the debate
to the current level, but for the sake of others as well as yourself, it needs
to be made clear that SpamCop currently has very serious issues with false
positives for mail servers belonging to very large ISP's, including AOL.
A couple of weeks ago they were regularly listing many of AOL's outbound
servers, and when I approached one of their "Deputies" about the issue, the
response was, "they are sending out spam and we're a very aggressive
list."
I've noticed in the past month that things have gotten
very bad with SpamCop in many regards, and I believe this is due to zombie
spammers now relaying their mail through the ISP's mail server as opposed to
directly to your server through the exploited machine. This does two
things, first, it helps protect the spam from being blocked since it's not
wise to be blacklisting AOL's or any other major ISP's mail servers, and
second, they do this to cause collateral damage to the spam traps by making
them less reliable. They are winning in both regards.
SpamCop is
a very useful test, however their false positive rate, and the type of thing
that they false positive on nowadays leaves something to be desired.
I've dropped my weighting on this test by 33% in the past few weeks, and it's
still causing me some sporadic problems.
Matt
Travis
Rabe wrote:
John, we have discussed this before and apparently we need to yet again.
Since you are not *EMAIL OVERLOAD* people can apply policies any way they
see fit. What you think people should "never do" are in fact great policies
on other networks. At our offices, blacklists like Spam Cop have yielded me
three false positives in the past 5 months. Let's calcualte that.......
Roughly 1500 emails per day per office = 7500 emails per day
5 months times (lets say 30 days = 150 days
7500 * 150 = 1,250,000 total e-mails
Total Fales Positives = 3
3/1,250,000 = .0000024 = PRETTY DAMN GOOD!
If I were running an ISP, sure my approach may be different, but I'm not.
For offices that strictly prohibit anything but work related mail blocking
on a relaible list like SpamCop works great! Please rememeber the way you
run your e-mail servers isn't the way we shoudl all run ours.
Thanks
Travis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Tolmachoff
(Lists)
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 8:36 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] ASSP
I would rather just return a 5XX reject message to someone that is on
SpamCop. Let their mail admin deal with their blacklisted
server problems.
Better them than me. I guess that all depends upon your religion though,
and
whether you lean more towards Len or Scott's viewpoint of what should be
blocked. I see merits in both arguments, but on the most
reliable DNSRBLs
I
use, I would much rather block than waste all that processing on
filtering.
Halt. Cease. Flag on play.
You should never ever take such an action based on a single DNS
based black
list. Haven't you heard of false positives and incorrect listings? Did you
know that for about a year, (do not know about recently,) that SpamCop was
listing Dunn & Bradstreet off and on? Turned out it was people who were
having actions taken against that reported LEGIT e-mail to SpamCop as spam
and got it listed.
John Tolmachoff
Engineer/Consultant/Owner
eServices For You
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