> Except that the intent is not to connect to them to view their > website or do > business with them. There is a specific intent here to use up their > bandwidth, forcing their costs of doing business higher, with no > intent to > do business with them. This is most definitely a punishable offense in a > court of law. Your argument could be used to justify spamming, or virus > writing, etc. Vigilante practices are loathsome and there is a definite > intent in the law to protect everyone from vigilantes. > > I hate spam too, but lowering ourselves to their base level - using > unethical network practices - is not the way...
Here, again, ethics is injected in the same discussion with legality. There are two questions: Is it legal? And, Is it ethical? The first legality, has no precedent. Not only is it nearly impossible to prove that the traffic - traffic they welcomed with their spam - is legit or a DDoS, there appears to be no laws in place relating to such activity. One cannot yet state with all certainty that what Lycos is doing is "illegal", though in strictly legal terms, one could definitely say they are walking a thin line. It's hard to prove "intent" in this case... at least prove intent of the individual nodes. Intent of Lycos is clear, and that's why I'm pretty sure it's THEIR necks on the line. It's up to each person to decide if it's okay to proceed and become a node on that basis, in LEGAL terms. The second, ethics, I would argue is not a black-and-white answer. If you are the type of person that sees right and wrong as 100% absolute, then what Lycos (and hence, participant in the program) is doing is either ethical or unethical... probably *unethical*, to you. Ethically speaking, it becomes up to each person to then decide if killing a spammer's website, with the intent of stopping their *PROVEN* illegal practice, is ethical. The question of whether a DDoS attack is a "sin" is at hand. Up to now, we could all agree that yes, a DDoS is not a Good Thing (tm). This new "service" by Lycos puts that position on much less stable footing. I know of at least one particular religion (somehow I knew religion would end up in this!!) that claims that God sees all sin the same, large or small, and treats all sin the same. If you believe that DDoS is a Bad Thing, regardless of the intent, then you'll see it as a Sin, and if you believe that all sins large and small are to be met with the same punishment (again, ethically, not legally), then you will take the position that this entire Lycos service is a Bad Thing. Those of us that do not subscribe to that position would probably feel differently about the Lycos solution. Some people aren't willing to accept that God is going to punish a good person that once participated in the theft of a loaf of bread to feed his family the same way that He would punish someone that murdered an entire family and buried them in a shallow grave by the railroad tracks. In the same way, some of us are willing to say that in this case, IF this type of service were considered a sin, (and not simply "Internet justice where Internet justice is long overdue", which is probably what we're more willing to say), it's not the same type of sin (vigilante-ism) as killing a murderer. It's the stolen-loaf-of-bread type of sin, as opposed to the killed-the-family type of sin. And if this type of justice is executed properly, it could be more effective in stopping the need for such justice in the future... more than can be said for the killing-the-murderer type of vigilante-ism that was in the comparison. Killing-the-murderer never had "preventing future murders" going for it... this attack against spammers just might work. The inflexibility and absolute nature and rules of most religions (in my own opinion, obviously) are the cause for so many problems today. There can be no justice or civility when rules are absolute. Some call this wishy-washy, flip-flopping, or possessing a lack of conviction... others call it the thoughtfulness that separates us from the other animals on the planet. To say that "attacking our attackers (spammers)" in a more effective way using a tool (in this case DDoS) that up to now has been considered "Bad" is vigilante action that is 100% wrong at all times demonstrates inflexibility that may in fact be standing in the way of long-overdue justice. This side of the discussion has philosophical elements, when you begin to discuss the ethics of a DDoS attack against a spammer's website, so I have no problem entering that realm. (At the risk of getting flamed that this is not appropriate for this list of course!) Philosophically speaking, the question in each person's mind will be "it is okay to do something that borders on 'evil' to rid the (domain) of a much greater, more harmful evil?"... and each of us will answer that in his own way, based on those "soft" variables like individual belief, experience, and moral flexibility or lack thereof. The legal questions may or may not find hard answers based on philosophy and ethics... but so far, this particular ethical/legal question has not been fought in any legal system, so there's no information there. Someone will eventually say "if this offends you, don't participate in the Lycos plan". That's not necessarily an answer either... since it cuts off discussion about how best to approach the DDoS system. I think there's a group of us that agree that if such a system is executed carefully, with good controls in place, there's a place for it on the Internet, and a chance that it could really force spammers to go get real jobs, since they cannot actually execute dollar sales as a result of their spam. There's another group that feels the ends don't justify the means, no matter how effective and carefully controlled. The first group will not be able to identify with the second group's position, probably not ever. But if the debate and discussion is kept carefully in check, both groups can continue to respect the position of the other, which could render an even better DDoS-type solution in the future, because all parties are still talking. Boy, I've wandered... To Unsubscribe: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/mailing-lists.html List Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/imail_forum%40list.ipswitch.com/ Knowledge Base/FAQ: http://www.ipswitch.com/support/IMail/
