the difference between 85% and 100% may not be worth the change in
terminology... In my own mind I do make a distinction between "denial" of
service and "degradation" of service, but in context, it probably doesn't
mean much at all.

 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Riddle
 > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 4:06 PM
 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 > Subject: RE: [IMail Forum] Lycos screensaver tackles spam websites
 >
 >
 > > > We're talking about an intentional DDoS attack (yes, it's just
 > > > HTTP hits,
 > > > but they are created for the sole purpose of using up the
 > > > resources of the
 > > > victim's website), and the owners of the computers that are
 > involved all
 > > > agreed to participate.
 >
 > No, we are not talking about a DDos attack.  Lycos is not
 > attempting to use up the resources of the spammers website.
 > Rather they are looking at consuming a considerable portion of
 > those resources.  By the statistics they are showing it appears
 > they may have set that threshold at 85%.
 >
 > >Hence my position that there is no legal precedent... since up
 > to now, the
 > >participants in the most famous DDoS's could not be considered as having
 > >"agreed to participate".  But that's all changed, and there is
 > an unknown...
 >
 > No, the picket anaolgy still holds because this is an organized
 > protests with what appear to be "reasonable" rules and
 > safeguards put in place.  This is nothing like some miscreant
 > hi-jacking unwitting web surfers machines to launch an attack
 > against a "innocent" victim, but rather a coordinated protests
 > against demonstrated law (rule) breakers
 >
 > >if there were legal action against Lycos, would/could the
 > participants be
 > >named as defendants in addition to Lycos... the question that
 >
 > First there would have to be a lawsuit against Lycos to identify
 > who the users of their screensaver are.  Not a lawsuit that
 > would likely be won.  See Napster, Kazaa, etc...
 >
 > >Again, talking strictly about Lycos, we're not really talking about a
 > >DDoS... but it's easier to refer to it that way.  And Len's right... if
 > >Lycos sets the bar at a certain height, others will come along
 > and raise the
 > >bar, or simply "also participate" which would have the end
 > result of a DDoS
 > >when all participants are combined.
 >
 > No, Len is probably wrong.  It looks like Lycos is monitoring
 > the available bandwidth at the sites it is directing its HTTP
 > request traffic at.  By themselves it looks like they are
 > looking to consume 85% of the bandwidth at the outlaw site.
 > Therefore they no how much traffic to direct at it by either
 > increasing the traffic or decreasing it.  Therefore, if another
 > site (or two, or three) starts doing the same thing then Lycos
 > would merely throttle back the amount of packets they are
 > sending at it to keep the the target site at 85% saturation.
 >
 > That of course does not address the issue if someone else does
 > the same thing and is not as "reasonable" as Lycos is being in
 > allowing the site to continue to have 15% of capacity to
 > continue their operations.  Certainly sounds like Len would be
 > in favor of the 100% attack that he is accusing Lycos of doing
 > (and which they are not).
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > ________________________________________________________________
 > Sent via the WebMail system at microworks.net
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
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