I am equally ignorant Ashwini Ji, if not more. You asked how to differentiate *foemina* and *coerulea*. Garg Sir forwarded the thread to me. I searched and provided the probable answer based on various websites. All of those sites may be wrong. It is irrelevant now. For, you have KEY by Gurcharan Sir. Incidentally, in my 1st reply mail <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/kcogdKv3uuY/I0_L_rVxQIoJ> I did mention that eFI (our group) had clear demarcation.
I do not know that if *foemina* is present in our country or not. Neither do I know if our species is var. *coerulea*. Again it is irrelevant now. You have KEY by Gurcharan Sir. I only wish to know if *Anagallis caerulea* L. is same species as *A. latifolia* L. FoC thinks *A. arvensis* L. flower can be blue or red - http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200016886 FoP divides it depending on flower colour http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200016886 but at the same time gives a note about *latifolia* in its *A. arvensis* var. *coerulea* page - http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250081215. Now, where could I find difference between *latifolia* and *coerulea*! Thank you Regards surajit On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 10:42 PM, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Surajit ji, > Thank you once again for taking the time to explain it patiently. The > illustration in the first link is wonderful and shows a plant close to my > sample. > > I am still confused though. What does *A. avensis* L. represent–the > scarlet variety or the blue one or both? Could we still call it a variation > as in *A. avensis* L. *var. caerulea*? > > So far I was only trying to see if it was *A. avensis* or *A. foemina* > but now realise that it is more complicated than that (if I understand > correctly, you are pointing out the possibility that these are the same > taxa). What would be the most reliable standard to follow here? > > This website treats *A. arvensis* L. and *A. foemina* Mill. as synonyms. > > http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/03030800-0b07-490a-8d04-0605030c0f01/media/Html/Anagallis_arvensis.htm > > I am sorry if I annoy you with my ignorance but I sincerely do not know > the answers to these questions. > > Warm regards, > Ashwini > > > > On 01-May-2015, at 4:43 pm, surajit koley <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Dear Ashwini Ji, > > When I write *A. arvensis* L. I mean *Anagalls arvensis* Linnaeus. > As for your concern regarding *latifolia* you may like to see > http://plantillustrations.org/illustration.php?id_illustration=86648. > As for your question regarding *caerulea* please check > > 1. http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.flora.floc009063 > 2. http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.mpu006275 > > Can you please tell me which one do we have Wight's *latifolia > <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2636074>* or Sweet's > *indica* <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2636064> or Linné's > *caerulea <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2636034>*? > > As for your question regarding KEW's label in *foemina* herb. you need to > check http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.k000750810 > > Does this satisfies you? > > Thank you > Regards > surajit > > > On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:54 AM, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Thank you Surajit ji for this detailed search. Indeed, it is difficult to >> tell from the pictures. I think we all seem to agree that my sample was >> *Anagallis >> arvensis* and not *A. foemina* (which was the major question to begin >> with). >> >> Looking at Dr Gurcharan Singh’s clear keys on efi, I concluded that we >> had *A. arvensis subsp. caerulea*. Are we now seeing that the subsp. >> part may not be correct and that it should be *Anagallis arvensis L*.? I >> am assuming L stands for Latifolia here. >> >> If both *A. arvensis subsp. caerulea* and *A. arvensis* L. are >> identical, isn’t the question then of a technicality–of whether the same >> should be called by either of these two names? >> >> The note at the bottom of the KEW sample has *A. arvensis* L. var .… >> written on it and not *A. foemina *as indicated by you. >> >> <Screen Shot 2015-05-01 at 7.51.37 am.png> >> >> I may have understood it incorrectly and if I have, please correct me. >> >> Thanks and regards, >> Ashwini >> >> On 30-Apr-2015, at 11:48 pm, surajit koley <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> This is a tough question, to differentiate the two taxa (or is it one?), >> in spite of eFI having a clear demarcation. >> >> Flower character, length of pedicels etc are often overlapping. While >> sites like >> http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/03030800-0b07-490a-8d04-0605030c0f01/media/Html/Anagallis_arvensis.htm >> or http://flowers2.la.coocan.jp/Myrsinaceae/Anagallis%20arvensis.htm or >> http://hirc.botanic.hr/fcd/DetaljiFrame.aspx?IdVrste=941 think all is >> same some other sites like the following links think otherwise - >> >> 1. http://www.floravascular.com/index.php?spp=Anagallis%20foemina >> 2. http://www.floravascular.com/index.php?spp=Anagallis%20arvensis >> >> I think number of seeds may help - 10 to 23 in *foemina* and 20 to 35 in >> *arvensis* (*caerulea* L.). >> >> Here is KEW herb of *foemina* - >> http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000750810. >> >> Since pedicels in the attached pics are longer than the subtending >> leaves, and I prefer to follow FoC it is likely to be *A. arvensis* L. >> >> Thank you >> Regards >> surajit >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:47 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I think you should be right. >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From: Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>> Date: 24 April 2015 at 17:51 >>> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:221413] Re: Blue Pimpernel ABAPR01/17 >>> To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]> >>> Cc: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>> >>> >>> Thank you very much Dr Garg. I am attaching here more photos to go with >>> the key. Please advise if my understanding is correct; >>> >>> >>> The first sample, petals are longer than sepals and petal edges are >>> minutely hairy like a torn paper. >>> <_MG_0262_13April15.jpg> >>> >>> The second sample from a different location shows pedicel longer than >>> leaves. >>> >>> <_MG_0272_18April15.jpg> >>> >>> Petals are overlapping. >>> <_MG_0272c_18April15.jpg> >>> >>> >>> Can we conclude from this that the flower is *A. arvensis var. caerulea* >>> ? >>> >>> Thanks and regards, >>> Ashwini >>> >>> >>> On 24-Apr-2015, at 5:24 pm, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Keys are available at Anagallis >>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/po/primulaceae/anagallis> >>> >>> On 24 April 2015 at 17:15, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thank you Dr Garg. I am not sure if it is *Anagallis arvensis ssp. >>>> foemina *or *Lysimachia formina. *The following is from my original >>>> message on this thread; >>>> >>>> "FOI website lists it (or a similar one) as *Anagallis arvensis ssp. >>>> foemina*. Alok Mahendroo ji's excellent nature blog says *Anagallis >>>> arvensis var. coerulea*. Wikipedia cautions not to confuse the blue >>>> variation of *A. arvensis* with *A. foemina* (or *Lysimachia formina*) >>>> as they are categorised as different species after DNA studies. >>>> >>>> I do not have the key to differentiate the two. Please advise.” >>>> >>>> Warm regards, >>>> Ashwini >>>> >>>> On 24-Apr-2015, at 2:14 pm, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Pl. see Anagallis >>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/po/primulaceae/anagallis> >>>> >>>> On 18 April 2015 at 21:25, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I found a few more plants at Gaggal Airport and am sharing them here >>>>> to confirm the ID if possible. >>>>> >>>>> Gaggal Airport >>>>> 1300m approx >>>>> 18 April 2015 >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> Ashwini >>>>> >>>>> <_MG_0265_18April15.jpg><_MG_0269_18April15.jpg> >>>>> >>>>> On 15-Apr-2015, at 9:05 am, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I saw these tiny blue flowers in the lower town where I had gone to >>>>> partake in a local feast. I tried to photograph it on my phone but was >>>>> unable to do so properly on account of the flower being too small for a >>>>> clear picture. I collected a sample and hoped that it didn't wilt in the >>>>> time it took me to reach home. It survived the journey and I made some >>>>> photographs propping it up with a discarded cardboard box (hence the brown >>>>> in the pictures). >>>>> >>>>> I was tickled on finding that it was called the Blue Pimpernel and was >>>>> useful as a weather indicator due to its propensity to close before bad >>>>> weather. I have not yet asked the local shepherds if they use this >>>>> 'shepherd's weather-glass', but will do so soon. FOI website lists it (or >>>>> a >>>>> similar one) as *Anagallis arvensis ssp. foemina*. Alok Mahendroo >>>>> ji's excellent nature blog says *Anagallis arvensis var. coerulea*. >>>>> Wikipedia cautions not to confuse the blue variation of *A. arvensis* >>>>> with *A. foemina* (or *Lysimachia formina*) as they are categorised >>>>> as different species after DNA studies. >>>>> >>>>> I do not have the key to differentiate the two. Please advise. >>>>> >>>>> Blue Pimpernel >>>>> Dharamshala, HP >>>>> 1500m approx. >>>>> 13 April 2015 >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> Ashwini >>>>> >>>>> <_MG_0235_13April15.jpg> >>>>> <_MG_0234_13April15.jpg> >>>>> <_MG_0223_13April15.jpg> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> With regards, >>>> J.M.Garg >>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>> Efloraofindia >>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >>>> database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of >>>> Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>> India'. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> With regards, >>> J.M.Garg >>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the >>> world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>> Efloraofindia >>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >>> database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of >>> Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>> India'. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> With regards, >>> J.M.Garg >>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the >>> world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>> Efloraofindia >>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >>> database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of >>> Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>> India'. >>> >> >> >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
