Gurcharanji do you by any chance have the DNA analysis paper handy can you send it to me, please
thanks usha di On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > Let us get it clear A. arvensis has orange or blue flowers with pedicels > longer than subtending leaves, sepals shorter than petals especially in > bud, petals erose with glandular tipped margin, petal margins overlapping, > seeds 20-35. (both A. indica Sweet. and A. latifolia L. are its synonyms. > The plants growing at lower altitudes mainly tropics and lower subtropics > have blue flowers and belong to var. caerulea > The plants growing in upper subtropical belt and temperate region have > orange red flowers and belong to var. arvensis > > Though earlier authors had confused all blue flowered form with A. foemina > as it turns out latter is distinct with flowers blue (only), pedicel > shorter or barely equalling subtending leaf, sepals equalling or longer > than petals especially in bud, petal margins not overlapping, margins with > no hairs or if few hairs are present their tips are elongated (not > globose), seeds usually 12-18, rarely as low as 10 or as high as 23. We > would be happy if any one discovers this species in India. , > I hope that settles the confusion > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > Retired Associate Professor > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 > http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ > > On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Thank you Narain Singh ji. >> >> Regards, >> Ashwini >> >> On 02-May-2015, at 12:18 am, Narain Singh Chauhan <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> aNAGALLIS ARVENSIS, COMMONLY KNOWN AS Neeli ka phool & Jonmari (Killer >> of snales) in Sanskrit. >> >> >> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 11:37 PM, surajit koley < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I am equally ignorant Ashwini Ji, if not more. You asked how to >>> differentiate *foemina* and *coerulea*. Garg Sir forwarded the thread >>> to me. I searched and provided the probable answer based on various >>> websites. All of those sites may be wrong. It is irrelevant now. For, you >>> have KEY by Gurcharan Sir. Incidentally, in my 1st reply mail >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/kcogdKv3uuY/I0_L_rVxQIoJ> >>> I did mention that eFI (our group) had clear demarcation. >>> >>> I do not know that if *foemina* is present in our country or not. >>> Neither do I know if our species is var. *coerulea*. Again it is >>> irrelevant now. You have KEY by Gurcharan Sir. >>> >>> I only wish to know if *Anagallis caerulea* L. is same species as *A. >>> latifolia* L. >>> >>> FoC thinks *A. arvensis* L. flower can be blue or red - >>> http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200016886 >>> FoP divides it depending on flower colour >>> http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200016886 but >>> at the same time gives a note about *latifolia* in its *A. arvensis* var. >>> *coerulea* page - >>> http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250081215. >>> >>> Now, where could I find difference between *latifolia* and *coerulea*! >>> >>> Thank you >>> Regards >>> surajit >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 10:42 PM, Ashwini Bhatia < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Surajit ji, >>>> Thank you once again for taking the time to explain it patiently. The >>>> illustration in the first link is wonderful and shows a plant close to my >>>> sample. >>>> >>>> I am still confused though. What does *A. avensis* L. represent–the >>>> scarlet variety or the blue one or both? Could we still call it a variation >>>> as in *A. avensis* L. *var. caerulea*? >>>> >>>> So far I was only trying to see if it was *A. avensis* or *A. foemina* >>>> but now realise that it is more complicated than that (if I understand >>>> correctly, you are pointing out the possibility that these are the same >>>> taxa). What would be the most reliable standard to follow here? >>>> >>>> This website treats *A. arvensis* L. and *A. foemina* Mill. as >>>> synonyms. >>>> >>>> http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/03030800-0b07-490a-8d04-0605030c0f01/media/Html/Anagallis_arvensis.htm >>>> >>>> I am sorry if I annoy you with my ignorance but I sincerely do not know >>>> the answers to these questions. >>>> >>>> Warm regards, >>>> Ashwini >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 01-May-2015, at 4:43 pm, surajit koley < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Ashwini Ji, >>>> >>>> When I write *A. arvensis* L. I mean *Anagalls arvensis* Linnaeus. >>>> As for your concern regarding *latifolia* you may like to see >>>> http://plantillustrations.org/illustration.php?id_illustration=86648. >>>> As for your question regarding *caerulea* please check >>>> >>>> 1. http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.flora.floc009063 >>>> 2. http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.mpu006275 >>>> >>>> Can you please tell me which one do we have Wight's *latifolia >>>> <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2636074>* or Sweet's >>>> *indica* <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2636064> or Linné's >>>> *caerulea <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2636034>*? >>>> >>>> As for your question regarding KEW's label in *foemina* herb. you need >>>> to check >>>> http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.k000750810 >>>> >>>> Does this satisfies you? >>>> >>>> Thank you >>>> Regards >>>> surajit >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:54 AM, Ashwini Bhatia < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thank you Surajit ji for this detailed search. Indeed, it is difficult >>>>> to tell from the pictures. I think we all seem to agree that my sample >>>>> was *Anagallis >>>>> arvensis* and not *A. foemina* (which was the major question to begin >>>>> with). >>>>> >>>>> Looking at Dr Gurcharan Singh’s clear keys on efi, I concluded that we >>>>> had *A. arvensis subsp. caerulea*. Are we now seeing that the subsp. >>>>> part may not be correct and that it should be *Anagallis arvensis L*.? >>>>> I am assuming L stands for Latifolia here. >>>>> >>>>> If both *A. arvensis subsp. caerulea* and *A. arvensis* L. are >>>>> identical, isn’t the question then of a technicality–of whether the same >>>>> should be called by either of these two names? >>>>> >>>>> The note at the bottom of the KEW sample has *A. arvensis* L. var .… >>>>> written on it and not *A. foemina *as indicated by you. >>>>> >>>>> <Screen Shot 2015-05-01 at 7.51.37 am.png> >>>>> >>>>> I may have understood it incorrectly and if I have, please correct me. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>> Ashwini >>>>> >>>>> On 30-Apr-2015, at 11:48 pm, surajit koley < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> This is a tough question, to differentiate the two taxa (or is it >>>>> one?), in spite of eFI having a clear demarcation. >>>>> >>>>> Flower character, length of pedicels etc are often overlapping. While >>>>> sites like >>>>> http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/03030800-0b07-490a-8d04-0605030c0f01/media/Html/Anagallis_arvensis.htm >>>>> or http://flowers2.la.coocan.jp/Myrsinaceae/Anagallis%20arvensis.htm or >>>>> http://hirc.botanic.hr/fcd/DetaljiFrame.aspx?IdVrste=941 think all is >>>>> same some other sites like the following links think otherwise - >>>>> >>>>> 1. http://www.floravascular.com/index.php?spp=Anagallis%20foemina >>>>> 2. http://www.floravascular.com/index.php?spp=Anagallis%20arvensis >>>>> >>>>> I think number of seeds may help - 10 to 23 in *foemina* and 20 to 35 >>>>> in *arvensis* (*caerulea* L.). >>>>> >>>>> Here is KEW herb of *foemina* - >>>>> http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000750810. >>>>> >>>>> Since pedicels in the attached pics are longer than the subtending >>>>> leaves, and I prefer to follow FoC it is likely to be *A. arvensis* L. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you >>>>> Regards >>>>> surajit >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:47 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I think you should be right. >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>> From: Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>>>> Date: 24 April 2015 at 17:51 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:221413] Re: Blue Pimpernel ABAPR01/17 >>>>>> To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]> >>>>>> Cc: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you very much Dr Garg. I am attaching here more photos to go >>>>>> with the key. Please advise if my understanding is correct; >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The first sample, petals are longer than sepals and petal edges are >>>>>> minutely hairy like a torn paper. >>>>>> <_MG_0262_13April15.jpg> >>>>>> >>>>>> The second sample from a different location shows pedicel longer than >>>>>> leaves. >>>>>> >>>>>> <_MG_0272_18April15.jpg> >>>>>> >>>>>> Petals are overlapping. >>>>>> <_MG_0272c_18April15.jpg> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Can we conclude from this that the flower is *A. arvensis var. >>>>>> caerulea*? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>> Ashwini >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 24-Apr-2015, at 5:24 pm, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Keys are available at Anagallis >>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/po/primulaceae/anagallis> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 24 April 2015 at 17:15, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you Dr Garg. I am not sure if it is *Anagallis arvensis ssp. >>>>>>> foemina *or *Lysimachia formina. *The following is from my original >>>>>>> message on this thread; >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "FOI website lists it (or a similar one) as *Anagallis arvensis >>>>>>> ssp. foemina*. Alok Mahendroo ji's excellent nature blog says *Anagallis >>>>>>> arvensis var. coerulea*. Wikipedia cautions not to confuse the blue >>>>>>> variation of *A. arvensis* with *A. foemina* (or *Lysimachia >>>>>>> formina*) as they are categorised as different species after DNA >>>>>>> studies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do not have the key to differentiate the two. Please advise.” >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Warm regards, >>>>>>> Ashwini >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 24-Apr-2015, at 2:14 pm, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pl. see Anagallis >>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/po/primulaceae/anagallis> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 18 April 2015 at 21:25, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected] >>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I found a few more plants at Gaggal Airport and am sharing them >>>>>>>> here to confirm the ID if possible. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Gaggal Airport >>>>>>>> 1300m approx >>>>>>>> 18 April 2015 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>> Ashwini >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <_MG_0265_18April15.jpg><_MG_0269_18April15.jpg> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 15-Apr-2015, at 9:05 am, Ashwini Bhatia < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I saw these tiny blue flowers in the lower town where I had gone to >>>>>>>> partake in a local feast. I tried to photograph it on my phone but was >>>>>>>> unable to do so properly on account of the flower being too small for a >>>>>>>> clear picture. I collected a sample and hoped that it didn't wilt in >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> time it took me to reach home. It survived the journey and I made some >>>>>>>> photographs propping it up with a discarded cardboard box (hence the >>>>>>>> brown >>>>>>>> in the pictures). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was tickled on finding that it was called the Blue Pimpernel and >>>>>>>> was useful as a weather indicator due to its propensity to close >>>>>>>> before bad >>>>>>>> weather. I have not yet asked the local shepherds if they use this >>>>>>>> 'shepherd's weather-glass', but will do so soon. FOI website lists it >>>>>>>> (or a >>>>>>>> similar one) as *Anagallis arvensis ssp. foemina*. Alok Mahendroo >>>>>>>> ji's excellent nature blog says *Anagallis arvensis var. coerulea*. >>>>>>>> Wikipedia cautions not to confuse the blue variation of *A. >>>>>>>> arvensis* with *A. foemina* (or *Lysimachia formina*) as they are >>>>>>>> categorised as different species after DNA studies. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I do not have the key to differentiate the two. Please advise. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Blue Pimpernel >>>>>>>> Dharamshala, HP >>>>>>>> 1500m approx. >>>>>>>> 13 April 2015 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>>> Ashwini >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <_MG_0235_13April15.jpg> >>>>>>>> <_MG_0234_13April15.jpg> >>>>>>>> <_MG_0223_13April15.jpg> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> With regards, >>>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than >>>>>>> a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>>>> etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for >>>>>>> free >>>>>>> as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>>>>> Efloraofindia >>>>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>>>> species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner >>>>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds >>>>>>> of India'. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> With regards, >>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>>> etc. >>>>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>>>> Efloraofindia >>>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>>> species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner >>>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>>> . >>>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds >>>>>> of India'. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> With regards, >>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>>> etc. >>>>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>>>> Efloraofindia >>>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>>> species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner >>>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>>> . >>>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds >>>>>> of India'. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Usha di =========== -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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