aNAGALLIS ARVENSIS, COMMONLY KNOWN AS Neeli ka phool & Jonmari (Killer of snales) in Sanskrit.
On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 11:37 PM, surajit koley < [email protected]> wrote: > I am equally ignorant Ashwini Ji, if not more. You asked how to > differentiate *foemina* and *coerulea*. Garg Sir forwarded the thread to > me. I searched and provided the probable answer based on various websites. > All of those sites may be wrong. It is irrelevant now. For, you have KEY by > Gurcharan Sir. Incidentally, in my 1st reply mail > <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/kcogdKv3uuY/I0_L_rVxQIoJ> > I did mention that eFI (our group) had clear demarcation. > > I do not know that if *foemina* is present in our country or not. Neither > do I know if our species is var. *coerulea*. Again it is irrelevant now. > You have KEY by Gurcharan Sir. > > I only wish to know if *Anagallis caerulea* L. is same species as *A. > latifolia* L. > > FoC thinks *A. arvensis* L. flower can be blue or red - > http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200016886 > FoP divides it depending on flower colour > http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200016886 but > at the same time gives a note about *latifolia* in its *A. arvensis* var. > *coerulea* page - > http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250081215. > > Now, where could I find difference between *latifolia* and *coerulea*! > > Thank you > Regards > surajit > > > On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 10:42 PM, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected] > > wrote: > >> Dear Surajit ji, >> Thank you once again for taking the time to explain it patiently. The >> illustration in the first link is wonderful and shows a plant close to my >> sample. >> >> I am still confused though. What does *A. avensis* L. represent–the >> scarlet variety or the blue one or both? Could we still call it a variation >> as in *A. avensis* L. *var. caerulea*? >> >> So far I was only trying to see if it was *A. avensis* or *A. foemina* >> but now realise that it is more complicated than that (if I understand >> correctly, you are pointing out the possibility that these are the same >> taxa). What would be the most reliable standard to follow here? >> >> This website treats *A. arvensis* L. and *A. foemina* Mill. as synonyms. >> >> http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/03030800-0b07-490a-8d04-0605030c0f01/media/Html/Anagallis_arvensis.htm >> >> I am sorry if I annoy you with my ignorance but I sincerely do not know >> the answers to these questions. >> >> Warm regards, >> Ashwini >> >> >> >> On 01-May-2015, at 4:43 pm, surajit koley <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Dear Ashwini Ji, >> >> When I write *A. arvensis* L. I mean *Anagalls arvensis* Linnaeus. >> As for your concern regarding *latifolia* you may like to see >> http://plantillustrations.org/illustration.php?id_illustration=86648. >> As for your question regarding *caerulea* please check >> >> 1. http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.flora.floc009063 >> 2. http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.mpu006275 >> >> Can you please tell me which one do we have Wight's *latifolia >> <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2636074>* or Sweet's >> *indica* <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2636064> or Linné's >> *caerulea <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2636034>*? >> >> As for your question regarding KEW's label in *foemina* herb. you need >> to check http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.k000750810 >> >> Does this satisfies you? >> >> Thank you >> Regards >> surajit >> >> >> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:54 AM, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected] >> > wrote: >> >>> Thank you Surajit ji for this detailed search. Indeed, it is difficult >>> to tell from the pictures. I think we all seem to agree that my sample was >>> *Anagallis >>> arvensis* and not *A. foemina* (which was the major question to begin >>> with). >>> >>> Looking at Dr Gurcharan Singh’s clear keys on efi, I concluded that we >>> had *A. arvensis subsp. caerulea*. Are we now seeing that the subsp. >>> part may not be correct and that it should be *Anagallis arvensis L*.? >>> I am assuming L stands for Latifolia here. >>> >>> If both *A. arvensis subsp. caerulea* and *A. arvensis* L. are >>> identical, isn’t the question then of a technicality–of whether the same >>> should be called by either of these two names? >>> >>> The note at the bottom of the KEW sample has *A. arvensis* L. var .… >>> written on it and not *A. foemina *as indicated by you. >>> >>> <Screen Shot 2015-05-01 at 7.51.37 am.png> >>> >>> I may have understood it incorrectly and if I have, please correct me. >>> >>> Thanks and regards, >>> Ashwini >>> >>> On 30-Apr-2015, at 11:48 pm, surajit koley < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> This is a tough question, to differentiate the two taxa (or is it one?), >>> in spite of eFI having a clear demarcation. >>> >>> Flower character, length of pedicels etc are often overlapping. While >>> sites like >>> http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/03030800-0b07-490a-8d04-0605030c0f01/media/Html/Anagallis_arvensis.htm >>> or http://flowers2.la.coocan.jp/Myrsinaceae/Anagallis%20arvensis.htm or >>> http://hirc.botanic.hr/fcd/DetaljiFrame.aspx?IdVrste=941 think all is >>> same some other sites like the following links think otherwise - >>> >>> 1. http://www.floravascular.com/index.php?spp=Anagallis%20foemina >>> 2. http://www.floravascular.com/index.php?spp=Anagallis%20arvensis >>> >>> I think number of seeds may help - 10 to 23 in *foemina* and 20 to 35 >>> in *arvensis* (*caerulea* L.). >>> >>> Here is KEW herb of *foemina* - >>> http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000750810. >>> >>> Since pedicels in the attached pics are longer than the subtending >>> leaves, and I prefer to follow FoC it is likely to be *A. arvensis* L. >>> >>> Thank you >>> Regards >>> surajit >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:47 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I think you should be right. >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>> Date: 24 April 2015 at 17:51 >>>> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:221413] Re: Blue Pimpernel ABAPR01/17 >>>> To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]> >>>> Cc: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank you very much Dr Garg. I am attaching here more photos to go with >>>> the key. Please advise if my understanding is correct; >>>> >>>> >>>> The first sample, petals are longer than sepals and petal edges are >>>> minutely hairy like a torn paper. >>>> <_MG_0262_13April15.jpg> >>>> >>>> The second sample from a different location shows pedicel longer than >>>> leaves. >>>> >>>> <_MG_0272_18April15.jpg> >>>> >>>> Petals are overlapping. >>>> <_MG_0272c_18April15.jpg> >>>> >>>> >>>> Can we conclude from this that the flower is *A. arvensis var. >>>> caerulea*? >>>> >>>> Thanks and regards, >>>> Ashwini >>>> >>>> >>>> On 24-Apr-2015, at 5:24 pm, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Keys are available at Anagallis >>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/po/primulaceae/anagallis> >>>> >>>> On 24 April 2015 at 17:15, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thank you Dr Garg. I am not sure if it is *Anagallis arvensis ssp. >>>>> foemina *or *Lysimachia formina. *The following is from my original >>>>> message on this thread; >>>>> >>>>> "FOI website lists it (or a similar one) as *Anagallis arvensis ssp. >>>>> foemina*. Alok Mahendroo ji's excellent nature blog says *Anagallis >>>>> arvensis var. coerulea*. Wikipedia cautions not to confuse the blue >>>>> variation of *A. arvensis* with *A. foemina* (or *Lysimachia formina*) >>>>> as they are categorised as different species after DNA studies. >>>>> >>>>> I do not have the key to differentiate the two. Please advise.” >>>>> >>>>> Warm regards, >>>>> Ashwini >>>>> >>>>> On 24-Apr-2015, at 2:14 pm, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Pl. see Anagallis >>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/po/primulaceae/anagallis> >>>>> >>>>> On 18 April 2015 at 21:25, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I found a few more plants at Gaggal Airport and am sharing them here >>>>>> to confirm the ID if possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Gaggal Airport >>>>>> 1300m approx >>>>>> 18 April 2015 >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>> Ashwini >>>>>> >>>>>> <_MG_0265_18April15.jpg><_MG_0269_18April15.jpg> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 15-Apr-2015, at 9:05 am, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I saw these tiny blue flowers in the lower town where I had gone to >>>>>> partake in a local feast. I tried to photograph it on my phone but was >>>>>> unable to do so properly on account of the flower being too small for a >>>>>> clear picture. I collected a sample and hoped that it didn't wilt in the >>>>>> time it took me to reach home. It survived the journey and I made some >>>>>> photographs propping it up with a discarded cardboard box (hence the >>>>>> brown >>>>>> in the pictures). >>>>>> >>>>>> I was tickled on finding that it was called the Blue Pimpernel and >>>>>> was useful as a weather indicator due to its propensity to close before >>>>>> bad >>>>>> weather. I have not yet asked the local shepherds if they use this >>>>>> 'shepherd's weather-glass', but will do so soon. FOI website lists it >>>>>> (or a >>>>>> similar one) as *Anagallis arvensis ssp. foemina*. Alok Mahendroo >>>>>> ji's excellent nature blog says *Anagallis arvensis var. coerulea*. >>>>>> Wikipedia cautions not to confuse the blue variation of *A. arvensis* >>>>>> with *A. foemina* (or *Lysimachia formina*) as they are categorised >>>>>> as different species after DNA studies. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do not have the key to differentiate the two. Please advise. >>>>>> >>>>>> Blue Pimpernel >>>>>> Dharamshala, HP >>>>>> 1500m approx. >>>>>> 13 April 2015 >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>> Ashwini >>>>>> >>>>>> <_MG_0235_13April15.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_0234_13April15.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_0223_13April15.jpg> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> With regards, >>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>> etc. >>>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>>> Efloraofindia >>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>> species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner >>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>> . >>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>>> India'. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> With regards, >>>> J.M.Garg >>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>> Efloraofindia >>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >>>> database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of >>>> Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>> India'. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> With regards, >>>> J.M.Garg >>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>> Efloraofindia >>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >>>> database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of >>>> Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>> India'. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send an email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. 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