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Thanks Dr Chauhan usha di On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 12:18 AM, Narain Singh Chauhan <[email protected] > wrote: > aNAGALLIS ARVENSIS, COMMONLY KNOWN AS Neeli ka phool & Jonmari (Killer of > snales) in Sanskrit. > > > On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 11:37 PM, surajit koley < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> I am equally ignorant Ashwini Ji, if not more. You asked how to >> differentiate *foemina* and *coerulea*. Garg Sir forwarded the thread to >> me. I searched and provided the probable answer based on various websites. >> All of those sites may be wrong. It is irrelevant now. For, you have KEY by >> Gurcharan Sir. Incidentally, in my 1st reply mail >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/kcogdKv3uuY/I0_L_rVxQIoJ> >> I did mention that eFI (our group) had clear demarcation. >> >> I do not know that if *foemina* is present in our country or not. >> Neither do I know if our species is var. *coerulea*. Again it is >> irrelevant now. You have KEY by Gurcharan Sir. >> >> I only wish to know if *Anagallis caerulea* L. is same species as *A. >> latifolia* L. >> >> FoC thinks *A. arvensis* L. flower can be blue or red - >> http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=200016886 >> FoP divides it depending on flower colour >> http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=200016886 but >> at the same time gives a note about *latifolia* in its *A. arvensis* var. >> *coerulea* page - >> http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=5&taxon_id=250081215. >> >> Now, where could I find difference between *latifolia* and *coerulea*! >> >> Thank you >> Regards >> surajit >> >> >> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 10:42 PM, Ashwini Bhatia < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Dear Surajit ji, >>> Thank you once again for taking the time to explain it patiently. The >>> illustration in the first link is wonderful and shows a plant close to my >>> sample. >>> >>> I am still confused though. What does *A. avensis* L. represent–the >>> scarlet variety or the blue one or both? Could we still call it a variation >>> as in *A. avensis* L. *var. caerulea*? >>> >>> So far I was only trying to see if it was *A. avensis* or *A. foemina* >>> but now realise that it is more complicated than that (if I understand >>> correctly, you are pointing out the possibility that these are the same >>> taxa). What would be the most reliable standard to follow here? >>> >>> This website treats *A. arvensis* L. and *A. foemina* Mill. as synonyms. >>> >>> http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/03030800-0b07-490a-8d04-0605030c0f01/media/Html/Anagallis_arvensis.htm >>> >>> I am sorry if I annoy you with my ignorance but I sincerely do not know >>> the answers to these questions. >>> >>> Warm regards, >>> Ashwini >>> >>> >>> >>> On 01-May-2015, at 4:43 pm, surajit koley <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Dear Ashwini Ji, >>> >>> When I write *A. arvensis* L. I mean *Anagalls arvensis* Linnaeus. >>> As for your concern regarding *latifolia* you may like to see >>> http://plantillustrations.org/illustration.php?id_illustration=86648. >>> As for your question regarding *caerulea* please check >>> >>> 1. http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.flora.floc009063 >>> 2. http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.mpu006275 >>> >>> Can you please tell me which one do we have Wight's *latifolia >>> <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2636074>* or Sweet's >>> *indica* <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2636064> or Linné's >>> *caerulea <http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl1.1/record/kew-2636034>*? >>> >>> As for your question regarding KEW's label in *foemina* herb. you need >>> to check >>> http://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.k000750810 >>> >>> Does this satisfies you? >>> >>> Thank you >>> Regards >>> surajit >>> >>> >>> On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:54 AM, Ashwini Bhatia < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Thank you Surajit ji for this detailed search. Indeed, it is difficult >>>> to tell from the pictures. I think we all seem to agree that my sample was >>>> *Anagallis >>>> arvensis* and not *A. foemina* (which was the major question to begin >>>> with). >>>> >>>> Looking at Dr Gurcharan Singh’s clear keys on efi, I concluded that we >>>> had *A. arvensis subsp. caerulea*. Are we now seeing that the subsp. >>>> part may not be correct and that it should be *Anagallis arvensis L*.? >>>> I am assuming L stands for Latifolia here. >>>> >>>> If both *A. arvensis subsp. caerulea* and *A. arvensis* L. are >>>> identical, isn’t the question then of a technicality–of whether the same >>>> should be called by either of these two names? >>>> >>>> The note at the bottom of the KEW sample has *A. arvensis* L. var .… >>>> written on it and not *A. foemina *as indicated by you. >>>> >>>> <Screen Shot 2015-05-01 at 7.51.37 am.png> >>>> >>>> I may have understood it incorrectly and if I have, please correct me. >>>> >>>> Thanks and regards, >>>> Ashwini >>>> >>>> On 30-Apr-2015, at 11:48 pm, surajit koley < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> This is a tough question, to differentiate the two taxa (or is it >>>> one?), in spite of eFI having a clear demarcation. >>>> >>>> Flower character, length of pedicels etc are often overlapping. While >>>> sites like >>>> http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/03030800-0b07-490a-8d04-0605030c0f01/media/Html/Anagallis_arvensis.htm >>>> or http://flowers2.la.coocan.jp/Myrsinaceae/Anagallis%20arvensis.htm or >>>> http://hirc.botanic.hr/fcd/DetaljiFrame.aspx?IdVrste=941 think all is >>>> same some other sites like the following links think otherwise - >>>> >>>> 1. http://www.floravascular.com/index.php?spp=Anagallis%20foemina >>>> 2. http://www.floravascular.com/index.php?spp=Anagallis%20arvensis >>>> >>>> I think number of seeds may help - 10 to 23 in *foemina* and 20 to 35 >>>> in *arvensis* (*caerulea* L.). >>>> >>>> Here is KEW herb of *foemina* - >>>> http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000750810. >>>> >>>> Since pedicels in the attached pics are longer than the subtending >>>> leaves, and I prefer to follow FoC it is likely to be *A. arvensis* L. >>>> >>>> Thank you >>>> Regards >>>> surajit >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:47 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think you should be right. >>>>> >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>> From: Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>>> Date: 24 April 2015 at 17:51 >>>>> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:221413] Re: Blue Pimpernel ABAPR01/17 >>>>> To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]> >>>>> Cc: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Thank you very much Dr Garg. I am attaching here more photos to go >>>>> with the key. Please advise if my understanding is correct; >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The first sample, petals are longer than sepals and petal edges are >>>>> minutely hairy like a torn paper. >>>>> <_MG_0262_13April15.jpg> >>>>> >>>>> The second sample from a different location shows pedicel longer than >>>>> leaves. >>>>> >>>>> <_MG_0272_18April15.jpg> >>>>> >>>>> Petals are overlapping. >>>>> <_MG_0272c_18April15.jpg> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Can we conclude from this that the flower is *A. arvensis var. >>>>> caerulea*? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>> Ashwini >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 24-Apr-2015, at 5:24 pm, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Keys are available at Anagallis >>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/po/primulaceae/anagallis> >>>>> >>>>> On 24 April 2015 at 17:15, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thank you Dr Garg. I am not sure if it is *Anagallis arvensis ssp. >>>>>> foemina *or *Lysimachia formina. *The following is from my original >>>>>> message on this thread; >>>>>> >>>>>> "FOI website lists it (or a similar one) as *Anagallis arvensis ssp. >>>>>> foemina*. Alok Mahendroo ji's excellent nature blog says *Anagallis >>>>>> arvensis var. coerulea*. Wikipedia cautions not to confuse the blue >>>>>> variation of *A. arvensis* with *A. foemina* (or *Lysimachia formina*) >>>>>> as they are categorised as different species after DNA studies. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do not have the key to differentiate the two. Please advise.” >>>>>> >>>>>> Warm regards, >>>>>> Ashwini >>>>>> >>>>>> On 24-Apr-2015, at 2:14 pm, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Pl. see Anagallis >>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/po/primulaceae/anagallis> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 18 April 2015 at 21:25, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I found a few more plants at Gaggal Airport and am sharing them here >>>>>>> to confirm the ID if possible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gaggal Airport >>>>>>> 1300m approx >>>>>>> 18 April 2015 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>> Ashwini >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <_MG_0265_18April15.jpg><_MG_0269_18April15.jpg> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 15-Apr-2015, at 9:05 am, Ashwini Bhatia < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I saw these tiny blue flowers in the lower town where I had gone to >>>>>>> partake in a local feast. I tried to photograph it on my phone but was >>>>>>> unable to do so properly on account of the flower being too small for a >>>>>>> clear picture. I collected a sample and hoped that it didn't wilt in the >>>>>>> time it took me to reach home. It survived the journey and I made some >>>>>>> photographs propping it up with a discarded cardboard box (hence the >>>>>>> brown >>>>>>> in the pictures). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was tickled on finding that it was called the Blue Pimpernel and >>>>>>> was useful as a weather indicator due to its propensity to close before >>>>>>> bad >>>>>>> weather. I have not yet asked the local shepherds if they use this >>>>>>> 'shepherd's weather-glass', but will do so soon. FOI website lists it >>>>>>> (or a >>>>>>> similar one) as *Anagallis arvensis ssp. foemina*. Alok Mahendroo >>>>>>> ji's excellent nature blog says *Anagallis arvensis var. coerulea*. >>>>>>> Wikipedia cautions not to confuse the blue variation of *A. >>>>>>> arvensis* with *A. foemina* (or *Lysimachia formina*) as they are >>>>>>> categorised as different species after DNA studies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do not have the key to differentiate the two. Please advise. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Blue Pimpernel >>>>>>> Dharamshala, HP >>>>>>> 1500m approx. >>>>>>> 13 April 2015 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>>> Ashwini >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <_MG_0235_13April15.jpg> >>>>>>> <_MG_0234_13April15.jpg> >>>>>>> <_MG_0223_13April15.jpg> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> With regards, >>>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>>> etc. >>>>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>>>> Efloraofindia >>>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>>> species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner >>>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>>> . >>>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds >>>>>> of India'. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> With regards, >>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>> etc. >>>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>>> Efloraofindia >>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>> species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner >>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>> . >>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>>> India'. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> With regards, >>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>> etc. >>>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>>> Efloraofindia >>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>> species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner >>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>> . >>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>>> India'. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "efloraofindia" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Usha di =========== -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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